ViS Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 The new fishroom is nearly completed, but I'm having the inevitable condensation problem. I knew it would happen, but needed to see how bad the problem was before taking action. I only get condensation on the exposed aluminium cornices and door frame. The pre-painted colourbond walls and ceiling stay completely dry. Do you think painting or treating the bare aluminium will stop the condensation, or am I just transferring the problem? I don't want to put in vents if I can help it as it kind of defeats the purpose of having the nicely insulated room. I'll get pics to show you what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfish Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 The new fishroom is nearly completed, but I'm having the inevitable condensation problem. I knew it would happen, but needed to see how bad the problem was before taking action. I only get condensation on the exposed aluminium cornices and door frame. The pre-painted colourbond walls and ceiling stay completely dry. Do you think painting or treating the bare aluminium will stop the condensation, or am I just transferring the problem? I don't want to put in vents if I can help it as it kind of defeats the purpose of having the nicely inulated room. I'll get pics to show you what I mean. ← unfortunately i dont have a fish room to have this problem with, but you could try a few hundred closet camels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 isn't baking soda or something else common & cheap an old school dehumidifier that gran would have used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 It is, as is cornstarch, but I think there might be a bit too much moisture in the air for a DIY moisture absorber. It only collects on the expose aluminium, so I'll try an experiment or two and see what difference coating the bare metal makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I don't think painting the aluminium will solve the problem. The water vapour that is in the air is forming as droplets on the aluminium now because it is the coldest surface. Painting it IMO will just move it to the next coldest surface. Have you thought of using an electric dehumidifier? There are a number of different ones on the market ranging in price from $150 to $1000. They can remove almost 30 litres a day depending on the size of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 Yeah Ged, that was my concern. Another thing I thought of was to make my own "dehumidifier". The way they work is to simply provide a cold surface for condensation to form on, then it drips into a tray to me emptied. If I was to make a long metal tube that went through the wall near the top and went vertically down the wall (a few inches off the wall) with a bucket underneath, I wonder if the condensation would form on it before the rest of the aluminium? Maybe if I did that and coated the existing aluminium with something, the tube would attract the moisture first? I could just have the metal tube sitting in the room, but if it was "touching" the outside air, it might be more effective..... What do you think of that idea? A dehumidifier would be most effective, but it's another $300 I don't particularly want to spend, and another ongoing electrical cost I'd rather not pay for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy2422 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I have the same problem. Just on the aluminium strip near the door to mine get a bit of moisture built up, i have just left it. I just make sure all my tanks are cover with lids to limit evaperation. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efc01 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Up here in Brisbane there are a few units around that create drinking water out of air. It collects humidity, filters it and the end result is pure water. Perhaps it might be worth looking into the units. At the end of the day you can top up your system with pure water and you will have no condensation. From memory the units are $1000 but don't quote me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 hrm - how dear are decent sized peltiers? you could use one of those as a cooler for your DIY dehumidifier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Jaycar sell pelteirs: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?I...eMax=&SUBCATID= I'd put a huge chulk of aluminium on both sides (some heatsink would be better as it takes up less space) and collect the water that condenses on the cold side. You might need a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Come to think of it you could run the water from the tank system past the hot heat sink to help heat the water. If you dissapate more heat on the hot side the cold side will be able to pump more heat because you will have a lower heat differential and you should be able to have a huge condensation collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 Might be worth a look. Temperature Differential (DT) (Th=27 degrees C) : >=68 degrees C Optimum Input Voltage (Vmax) (Th=27 degrees C): 15V Optimum Input Current (Imax) (Th=27 degrees C): 6A Maximum Cooling Power (Qmax): 51.4W Does that mean it will draw 51W the whole time it's plugged in? I'm also assuming I could run it off my UPS battery if I wanted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Yes 51W. But why run it when the power goes out? If the power went out I'd accept a little extra condensation. When it comes back it would be dried up anyway. The 51W is also a junction loss and ends up as extra heat on the hot side so if it goes into the water column (or even the air) it's going to reduce the duty cycle of the heating system in an closed system like a fish room by much the same amount. The only issue is if the room is hotter than ambient and you are on a cool cycle. In which case I'd turn it off and accept a small amount of condensation as it helps cool surfaces (and you subtract 51W from the system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Maybe try a salt lamp? Ive got one in my fishroom and dont get any mositure but my room is diffrent to yours obviously, heres a link with some info.... http://www.illumegallery.biz/health.html Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettmck Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Remember the KISS principle ( Keep It Simple Stupid) The laws of physics are hard to beat. Energy (heat) = Evaporation = Humidity = Condensation. By removing the humidity you'll only increase evaporation. I used a length of steel piping near the door to my room back in perth which ran into a drip tray ( similar to your idea in your post ) I also grow orchids so humidity was my friend. Good luck with what ever path you take I miss my fish room, two tanks in a small inner city appartment is just not enough! Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Thanks for the replies so far. Brett, I'm a big fan of the KISS principle (not that you'd know it by some of the fishroom contraptions I've made in my time) . That's the reason I was keen to try the steel pipe. No power consumption, no expense to set it up, reasonably unobtrusive. Another version I could try if it wasn't successful would be to run a hollow pipe in through the wall up high and back out down low, with a small "kink" or "loop" at the lowest point, just before heading back outside. Hopefully having both ends contacting directly with the night air would be enough to keep it at a lower temperature than the inside aluminium strips. Failing that, a tiny 1w 12v fan blowing through it from the top should keep it nice and cold. While on the subject, does anyone know which metals conduct heat more effectively? I need to use a metal that conducts heat / cold better than aluminium. Andy, not a bad idea, but I might turn my fish into hippies Mianos, The only reason I'd hook it through the UPS would be the fact that they run on 12v and would be easier to run off the battery. I could run them on mobile phone chargers I suppose. In a blackout I'll only be running the LP60 air pump which powers the sponge filters in each tank, so a couple of peltiers shouldn't drain it too much. I'm going to try the pipe first, providing I'm confident it will be colder than the existing interior flashing. Probably try copper? It's a better heat conductor than aluminium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Based on this: Material Thermal conductivity (cal/sec)/(cm2 C/cm) Thermal conductivity (W/m K) Silver 1.01 406.0 Copper 0.99 385.0 Brass - 109.0 Aluminum 0.50 205.0 Iron 0.163 i 79.5 Steel - 50.2 A copper pipe would probably be best. I agree simple is best but I like to build stuff. Even stuff that's not viable in terms of time to build vs buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckmeister Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I've tried a copper pipe or two and it simply wasn't effective for me. My room was completely sealed though, having my garage underground surrounded by earth, the only weak spot really was the front. I found the humidity to be extremely difficult to deal with as even if its not dripping all you needed to do was walk into the room to get hit by it. The bigger issue I faced with it, well two really was that it provided a breeding ground for c.ockys but worse than that it provided the ultimate spot for two nests of termites. I had the pest guys around and they were flabbergasted that they were buiding their nest on the outside of the wall and within about two weeks had nests about 2.5 to 3 foot tall. It was suggested that I provided them with everything that they needed (humid stable conditions,water and food) so the issue of humidity for me was fairly serious. It cost 1700 dollars to bait them and really for me was easier to shut the room down which I did. Good luck with whatever you try though. Oh and I did enquire earlier in the piece about de-humidifiers and was told that they can collect in excess of 20 litres a day but at the time thought it was too expensive. I'd be guessing that with water evap. from the 5-6 odd thousand litres I had that 20 liters would be pretty conservative guess at the water content kicking around Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samma3l Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 The copper idea. Have you got any household plumbing running into the room already? If you do, extending the existing cold water with a coiled copper pipe could do the trick. Kind of like a stil except the evaporation collects outside and the coolant runs inside. Though keep in mind that it will work better if connected to a pipe that is used regularly e.g. if the mains water runs through this. This may prove costly though to rig up the plumbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Salita Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Maybe this is too simple.... what about a whirlybird? I guess you dont want to remove too much warmth though.... HTH, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Yeah Jason, I'm trying to steer clear of any extraction systems. Seems to defeat the purpose of having the insulated room. Worst case scenario is that I simply put up with the condensation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saudukar Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Note you could probably do this with a garden hose or black reticulation piping. You could probably twist the copper pipe into a spiral. Drill a hole in the upper section of the wall near the roof leading outside. Spiral the pipe down outisde and back inside the shed lower down on the wall. Put a bucket underneth the return pipe lower down the wall. Spiral the pipe outside so it is in contact with the cooler air outside to facilitate most of the condensation returning to a physical liquid not vapour. A better solution would be to have the spiral pipe immersed in a cooler liquid but cooler air will do. Push the moist air through the pipe with a small 5v fan like you have in computers so the air inside is slowly circulated through this spiral pipe so the air cools inside the pipe. The return air should be less humid with the condensation returning as waste water from the lower pipe. This solution is fairly economical because it doesn't require a lot of electricity and is fairly easy enough to do without large amounts of heat loss. This is the same way nuclear power plants disapate heat into large amounts of water and also reclaim the steam vapour. Seems a logical design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 ViS, How'd the condensation issue go? Did you resolve it? p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yep A tiny computer case fan in the wall running off the UPS battery draws out the humidity, and provides a small amount of fresh air into the fishroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yep A tiny computer case fan in the wall running off the UPS battery draws out the humidity, and provides a small amount of fresh air into the fishroom. Sorry for my ignorance but, what's the UPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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