davez104 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Hi all, I bought 5 Tropheus a month or so back. My partner wanted them, I warned here of the possible problems etc, because the only place I had for them was in our community 8 footer. They have been fed a combination of sera flora and sera san, mainly sera san. They had been doing well until the last couple days, we have now lost 2, the others don't look too bad yet, but I guess its only a matter of time. The think that concerns me is this, could this now affect the other inhabitants of the tank?? Lepidiolamps, Altolamps, Xenotilapias, Opthalmotilapias, Ecotodus Julidochromis and Synodontis?? I don't think any of these are prone to bloat, but was wondering of the effects of having possibly affected fish in with them. I am not treating the Tropheus with anything at the moment, but am also not feeding the tank either. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 start soaking all their food in metronidazol for about 30mins prior to feeding are any other tropheus showing signs? if so remove them..and treat in a bucket i use one tablet 200mg to half abucket of water ~15l thats a super heavy dose usually its 200mg to 40litres do this every day for 3 days with almost 100% water changes let rest for 2 days and start again they usually wont eat if in a bucket i have had regani die the same way a long time ago when i got my first case of bloat......didnt even know what it was back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 Not sure if I'll be able to find any in Emerald, but I'll have a look. Only 1 lone T left now, also lost a calvus last night, this is starting to worry me a bit. All up I have lost a spilopterus, 1 descampsii, 4 Tropheus and 1 calvus in the last week Not sure that it would be all linked to the T's. The fish don't look to be unhappy or unhealthy, they just turn up dead in the morning. Don't have many test kits, but the pH is fine 8.0-8.5, water changes have not been missed, last one was yesterday, about 45%. I have added a few plants over the last couple weeks but would have thought that a drop in pH would be the only side effect I might see. 1 plant is on a small piece of wood, the others are on rocks. Not sure where to look next. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 You'll need to get the Metronidazole from a vet on prescription. Good luck. Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 sorry to hear of your losses. i would never feed my tropheus sera san, that is likely to cause bloat, sera flora is ok, however i think there is something more going on than bloat here. Maybe u have an ammonia or nitrate spike? U should try to do an immediate water change, of at least 50% water. If u do have a community tank of tropheus u should try to feed them NLS pellets which is much better tolerated. hth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Just had basic water parameters checked at LFS, Ammonia is <0.1ppm Nitrite is <0.1ppm and Nitrate is between 5 and 10ppm. As stated before pH is between 8.0 and 8.5 and is stable. Went to the vets and she wants to do her own research re dosage rates etc and then should be no probs getting Metronidazole. Hopefully late today or first thing tomorrow. None of the other fish in the tank look sick at all, but my male ventralis and female spilopterus both seem withdrawn, if that makes sense. Not their normal selves, hiding at the back of the tank. So thats where I'm at ATM. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saudukar Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Went to the vets and she wants to do her own research re dosage rates etc and then should be no probs getting Metronidazole. ← I love when vets tell you that. Thats the PC way to say was that she has never heard of Metronidazole and is now checking to see wether she is allowed to sell it or if this chemical can be used in the manufacture of other illegal drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Metro is ineffective on it's own in most bloat cases - especially where Tropheus are involved - you need to attack both the flagellate and the bacteria so also require an additional antibiotic. Most of us end up using a broad spectrum one as without diagnosis it is difficult to pin down the bacteria involved. As already suggested I would be feeding the tank metro pre soaked food - I soak the food for quite a few hours as metro in non soluble and will not mix at all in water. At least those eating will get a good dosing. You can dose the tank but I too, am not certain that it is bloat from your descriptions . Bloat is slow, so very slow, from start to finish with alot of factors resulting usually in the death of the affected fish. Try the food, and let us know if any other symptoms occur. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 OK then, if not bloat, what else could it be? Would it most likely be bacterial? In which case some sort of broad spectrum antibiotic might be worth a shot?? I'll give the metro soaked food a go when I get and see how things eventuate over the next couple days. It would have taken no more than 2 days from when I first noticed the Tropheus go off their tucker to when they where goners, not sure if this is about right for bloat or if it normally takes longer. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Yeah, as Aline sais it takes longer, sometimes weeks for the fish to finally sucumb to the disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Ok, I've got the metro, currently soaking some food in it. Got 2 x 100ml bottles, liquid form, 40mg/ml. 1 is out of date, the vet said both where out of date but one has 12/06 stamped on it. Does this stuff lose effectiveness after the date? The date on the other bottle is 05/05. Also, will metro help with other bacterial infections if this is not bloat? Gonna do some googling later and see what I can turn up. Thanks everyone, your help is very much apreciated. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Why is the vet giving out of date meds?? Especially allowable ones It shouldn't make too much difference although they are compromised as they are a perishable. The metro may help other conditions and it certainly will not harm in the doses we speak of. Some T keepers and breeders use it as a prophylactic (preventative)treatment. I was tempted to start dosing all fish on a regular basis after my one and only bloat attack but have yet to take this path. Fish that are shipped from overseas are also dosed by many exporters again as a preventative measure. Tangs are prone to water imbalances more than most. Have you done a water change yet?? I may have missed reading this Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 It was the only two bottles she had in the shop, so she said I could have them and see how I went. I did a water change yesterday of about 45%, which is about what I do every week. Also had water parameters checked today,Amonia <0.1ppm, Nitrite <0.1ppm, Nitrate between 5 & 10ppm, pH between 8.0 & 8.5 - stable. I think this is ok. I can get more metro overnight if needed. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Sorry about your situation I tend to agree with Aline...doesn't sound like bloat to me either. Apart from Tropheus spp. I have not heard of bloat in tangs. I think it is more an affliction of malawis (kept in less than "good" water conditions). If you can get your hands on some oxytet, I'd try dosing with that. If it is bloat, it will work in conjuction with the metro....if not it will help if it is bacterial. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I have just re-read your post.....is there any chance of poisoning going on? The reason why I ask is that it has affected a range of species very quickly. Any redness in the fins or where the fin attch to the body? Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hi Andrea, Oxe-tet, is that a tetracycline based drug? I have a little on hand, not enough to treat the whole tank though. I am in the process of stripping the tank down and moving the affected fish into a 50l to help me treat them. At the moment it only seems to be a big male ventralis and maybe a female spilopterus. The ventralis has a swollen belly and is not his usual busy self. He's just been hiding in the corner most of the day. The spilo, I'm not sure, she just seems very timid, moreso than usual so she will get treated as well. No noticible redening of the fins, maybe slightly around the anus of a couple. If it is some kind of poisoning, I am at a loss as to what it could be. There is nothing unusual that has happened in the house in the last couple of weeks. Unless it was something that came in the tap water, I can't think of anything. Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Dave that sux mate, i feel for your loss. the oxytet may be effecteive being an all round broad spectrum antibiotic, which is the best bet when you have no idea! Not that i should be recomending the uninformed use of antibiotics At work we only pescribe or recomend metronidozol for anaerobic infections, but it also is effective against protozoans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 do u do water changes directly from tap water? Could there have been excess chlorine/chloramine in the water that u didn't neutralise completely by chance? Have u had any recent pest control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 I always use double dose of dechlorinator, still possible I guess. No pesticides at all. affected fish are being treated in a small tank. The rest are just being fed metro soaked food at this point. Will let you all know what has happened in the morning. Thanks everyone. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davez104 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Another night over, the news is not that good. The two fish that looked a bit sick are gone. 1 ventralis, 1 spilopterus. All other fish are still looking good so hopefully this might be the end of it, but I'll be keeping a very close eye on them for a while. I'll continue to soak their food in metro and see what happens. Thanks again for everyones help. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I would seriously consider using the oxytet in conjunction with the metro. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvus Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Sorry to read the bad news :-( sounds more like a parasite from what Ive read??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.