phatoscarlover Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey guys, just wondering if anyone is keeping or breeding blue dempseys? I didnt think they were around but they have shown up in a shop in Melbourne and was just wondering if they have been sighted in Sydney yet? Anyone got any pics? (Looking for private pics not website pics ) Thanks. Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolute_vodka01 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I dont have any pics, but they have also popped up here in QLD. only 5 or 6 were seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Similar numbers in melbourne...... Thanks! Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 an interesting fish with an interesting history. I've not seen any - but then again I've not been looking much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Thanks dave, they are a very interesting fish, one ive had my eyes on for a while, i just dont want to part with an arm and a leg to get one Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pride Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 how much were they asking for them? Everything that I have read they have said they are not a real hardy fish and can keel over the first sign of a problem? Look pretty though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Hey Pride, that wouldnt suprise me if they were a bit weaker than your standrad dempsey. As for price, they are POA which usually means expensive lol Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keleher Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 iv seen them listed some where think they cost bout $125ea for small ones. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonauv Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I've not read anything about them lately (in the last 6 years lol!!!) - what has been 'decided' about them - where did they come from? What are they really, are they hyrids or mutations (or both lol)? What's the low-down on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keleher Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 dont quote me on this but from memory i think i read there a hybrid.ill try find the info again. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 As far as i understand it its a mutation that has been line breed to throw 100% blue fry. I cant find any articles on them anymore that suggest they are a hybrid? Personally i think that was just hearsay. As far as i can find out they were line breed by a guy called Hector Luzardo in the early-mid 90's. If anyone else has any usefull info feel free to share. Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Link to blue dempsey article looks like Andy is spot on, line bred mutation or recessive gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keleher Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 ak i take that back about the hybrid thing.couldnt find what i read, must have been one of those things where no one knew what it was so they yelled hybrid. relly nice fish, definatly one ill be lookin into.anyone found any yet? james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndoboi Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 There's a couple at St.Kilda aquarium in Melbourne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolute_vodka01 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I'm pretty sure the ones I saw were $140, but dont quote me on that. The same store also has Zebra plecs for $750. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonauv Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Yeah - reason I asked is that when this post turned up I went looking again and found something saying that blue demp. x blue demp. is an infertile paring but when bred back to normal demp. you get some fertility. This kind of pattern is consistent with a hybrid where there is some mismatch in chromosome count. E.g. according to A.P.Greys book "Bird hybrids " pheasant x chicken can be done and there are some male individuals that are partly fertile while others are sterile and the partially fertile ones must be line bred back to either the pheasant or the chicken (depending which species you are trying to 'improve') to improve the fertility of the lines. The gist of it is something like in the first generation the males (because there are lots of sex-linked genes associated with poultry crosses) all have reduced fertility and the females are sterile for the first 4(ish) generations then the females of the back crosses start having reduced fertility. The male's fertility increases with each generation by backcrossing until eventually, if for example you were trying to change the chicken, you could cross them with normal chickens without any apparent loss in fertility (there was some talk on the poultry genetics forum I am part of to try and introduce the gold colour of the golden pheasant into into chickens like canary breeders did to introduce the red colour from the weavers - yeah yeah - I have no life...). So you can cross both the chicken and the golden pheasant with the silver pheasant with some fertility. Then by backcrossing you establish 2 strong fertile lines. Mortality is generally quite high early on with reduced mortality in each subsequent generation. Even that article on the blue dempseys shown here mentions that early on the fry lacked vigour and is hardly conclusive evidence that they are infact a mutation or a recessive gene. For a start the origin of the parents that were received as a 'gift' is unverified and it seems strange, that unless in the homozygous form there is a lethal gene in there somewhere that the spawn from blue x blue is always sterile (although the 25% ratio of blue to normal from heterozygous parents and 50% from the hom. recessive x het. parents is consistent with a recessice gene being present (funny though that it seems to have a multitude of effects from the blue colour to elongating the body, extending the fins and reducing aggressive behaviour)). My bet is that in the not to distant future fertility in the blue dempseys will have increased and they will become fertile in their own right allowing blue x blue to be possible. I still smell a 'flower horn'-come-blood parrot type beast. You'd think that someone would take it upon themselves to prove once and for all by means of sampling their DNA whether they are mutts or mutations once-and-for-all wouldn't you. Sounds like a job for a cichlid society with greater resources than most individuals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 That actually makes sense now that you put it that way - though dempseys are a pretty elongated fish to start with & I can't think of a longer blue one to be crossed with? Perhaps the dempsey's body elongation gets exaggerated when a JDxTexas crosses back with a pure dempsey or another JDxTex? Their finnage could come from a really spiffy texas perhaps? What other blue neotropicals are there? You wouldn't think Geos (brazilnesis) would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonauv Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Brasils have been known to hybridise with texans b4. Not sure this is what it is though - not 100% sure it's a mutt either 4 that matter. Here is a pic of a brasil x synspilum with fry: http://www.cichlid.org/Photos/S12/Images/PH0220.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the cichlid kid Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 They are at an aquarium up here, they had about 15 of them and they were $115 ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilli Powder Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 mmm.. interesting indeed.. A closer look revealed about one-fourth of the fry gathering in one corner, looking smaller and thinner than the rest of their siblings. They were immediately transferred to another tank. After a couple of weeks the pale creamy color of the young fish slowly turned into a bright turquoise blue, growing into something completely different from their parents. A whole new type of fish had arisen. Surely, others who bought the siblings of the parents would have had a similar experience? It can't be that only ONE person decided to breed from that batch? Who knows. Beautiful fish but more info is needed at the moment I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCormick Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Hi Guys, I remember hearing a few years back that the theory was that Nandopsis tetracanthus (cuban cichlid) had been used in producing the Blue dempsey, it wouldn't have produced the overall blue colouration but the markings around the head on some of the photos of the BD's that I've seen is similar to tetracanthus. You will find some pics here of the cuban cichlid. Also have a look at his "Archocentrus octofasciatum blue dempsey" I think you will see what I mean about the markings. http://www.tangledupincichlids.com/photo.html Cheers, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Jack Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I know where they are available in brisbane for $150. about 4-5cm. They were still available about a week ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlUe Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I'm pretty sure the ones I saw were $140, but dont quote me on that. The same store also has Zebra plecs for $750. Adam Wow, just rang St Kilda Aquarium, they have one pair left, not for sale, but he said the pair would go for $800 if they were being sold.. Ouch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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