piracu Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi, I breed several species of Tang sandsifters inc Ventralis and foia sp plus enantiopus melanogenys and kilessa etc. Many of my fish are in mixed tanks but some are in species only tanks and I find that most of the time I cant get my fish to hold past about 5 days which would be the minimum time frame I would stripp any of these sp? What are other peoples experience with these sp and does anyone have any hints? I have recently tried leaving a light in the fish room on 24/7 when females are carrying to see if this helps as i believe that it maybe during the night they loose the eggs...have no conclusive results to report on this yet!! Regards James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keleher Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 hey i have trouble with my ectodus descampsii holding aswell. iv found if i accidently leave the light on over night that they spat early every time.1 trick thats has been working a bit tho is not puting any food in that tank for a few days when a female holds.i also added a few rocks into the tank and the holding females seem to hang round them might give them a bit more security but i dunno.iv heard of a few people having sandsifters and not being able to get them to hold. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi James, I have not been able to get my foai to hold since moving them. I am putting it down to they are sharing a tank. I have seen several females spit their eggs and eat when I feed the tank and the other fish eat her eggs. She always goes back for them, but they are all gone. I was recently asked the same question on the Newcastle Forum and my suggestion was to starve the tank for a few days and strip. If they are heads and tails then you know she is just not comfortable holding and you need to change something. If they are eggs or off then maybe the male is not quiet UP to it if you know what I mean. I think I need to fatten mine up so she can hold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Firstly I'd say DON'T leave your lights on all the time. Then I'd go on to say - not enough information. For example, how old are the fish? What's your KH? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Out of about 7 females (foai) I have only had one hold full term (she's held full term twice now). They take ages to get it right, she probably held 8-10 times before she got it right. The fish are about 20 months old now and only 2 successful mouthfulls. But from what I hear they will start to function properly as they get more and more experience. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danpri Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I had trouble with descampsi holding, but after they matured a bit there was no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I have had similar problems, my foi usually only hold until about day 14, so i strip them at 7-10 days As for sandsifters my spilopterous, and flavipinnis would not hold past day 10, if SHE kept all the eggs, usually she would spit the eggs, or try to pass them to the male, once i saw him pick up a few, but left the rest, he held them forr les than a day...usually he just ate them or she spat em out and he ignored them, otr they got disturbed by other fish.....strip them within 5 days.. melanos will usually hold for atleast 2 weeks , and learn very fast, mine were doing well (holding for 3 weeks) by their 3rd mouthfull... But all things considered now i find it easier for me and them to remve the eggs after 7-10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colfish Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 my young ventralis have had a few false starts, but the oldies get it right each time although they're starting to slow down a bit now i'd advise to leave them be, and suffer the loss knowing that at least they're trying they need to be really well conditioned, and the water paremeters need to be 'up there'. leave her in the tank 'till the last week, then transfer her to a fry saver,after a couple of go's at this, she learns what's the 'go' and she will promply spit them out for you. so easy! i know we're all keen to get fry asap and stripping is our obvious option. i say if you want better/stronger fry, leave them alone and let them learn, [they do know better than we can ever guess] and you will have trouble free breeding onwards. stripping at 1 week/10 days teaches her that this is the time to be rid of her fry that's my soap box, and it's strong enough for me to stand on cheers; C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piracu Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Thanks for everyones input on this so far. It seems that the foa/ventralis types are pretty bad for this sort of thing! Maybe in the wild the quanity of mouthbrooding females at the one time serves to reaffirm the purpose of what the female is doing? The melos are not as bad as the foai/ventralis and I do agree that leaving them as long as possible is probably better in the long run if you believe in "imprinting" theories being applied to fish as nopt sure any conclcusive proof on this subject bar perhaps the homing instinct of some salmon species...please let me know if you have any scientific evidence to back the imprinting theory in cichlids?? Anyone?? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I've had similar problems with foai, callochromis and descampsi over the times and have had some success with: - just plain stop feeding them for the first week after spawning - separating the males once they've spawned (ie remove or isolate the male rather than the female). For smaller fish that were happy in a 5'x18"x18" tank this was achieved using a piece of perspex inserted in the tank with the holding female on one side and the rest of the colony on the other so the female could still feel like part of the colony but not get harassed (or fed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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