Another "can you HELP me I.D. these fish"

[Josh]

Hi all.

I need some help to I.D. these fish for a friend

1st one. Its the yellow one in the middle

2nd one

I have more photo's if needed

I thought the first may have been a A. baenschi, but the second I am not sure of. They are both about 4 inches in length and he got them NSWCS 'mini-auction'

Josh and Evelyn

[ViS]

The second fish is an Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "eureka red" peacock. The first looks to be one of a string of man made peacocks being brought in from Asia.

If they were sold at the mini auction, they were scrutineered. What did it have on the bag? The auctioneer wouldn't have auctioned it if they thought it to be a hybrid, so maybe your friend should have a good think about what he bought them as.

I've not seen the first fish in recent memory.

[Josh]

thanks andy

the fish were bought in feb\march last year. and the fish was only about 1 inch then. He cant remember the name on the bag. Can you tell me is the Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "eureka red" peacock, the same fish as the Aulonocara sp "eureka red". There seems to be some confusion between the origins of these fish

[ViS]

Below is the story behind the eureka. There is no such fish as the Aulonocara sp "eureka red" as it has been classified as a strain of jacobfreibergi.

Here is a definitive explanation of the origin of this beautiful fish.

Some people (including "respected" authors) have labeled this fish a hybrid for years, owing to it's bright red colouration, which is not found in wild jacobfreibergi.

Here are two emails sent to me from Ad Konings who, along with Aussie Magnusson I regard as the two people whose advice on the subject of peacocks are second to none. Basically what they say goes, as they have more experience with peacocks than most people in the world.

"The Eureka is a selected-for-red strain of the A. jacobfreibergi from Otter Point. It is not a hybrid. The breeder selected the offspring for the most red males and females with the most red anal fins. Females of this population in the wild have orange to yellow anal fins, and in the beginning most females

from a Eureka spawn fell back to a light-colored anal fin. Since selection wasn't always done properly, later breeders selected for the pure red anal fin strain until all offspring carried a bright-red anal fin. This strain has been called Eureka-Red. Again, no hybridization involved. Since such strains are not the normal morphs seen in the wild I have not included them in my books but in principle a Eureka-like specimen can exist in the wild.

Best regards and enjoy your cichlids! Ad"

"The Eureka originates in the Netherlands and is a selected strain of the variant from Otter Island. It is NOT an hybrid. The breeder (Ruijsbroek) selected his offspring for the most red fins in the females and the most red in male coloration. After a number of generations the Eureka was established.

However, if you don't continue the selection in your own offspring the strain may fall back to the original Otter Point form.

Best regards, Ad"

I'm also going to include bits of information collected from aquarists on the subject which I find important. I will update this post when I find new bits of information. Special thanks to Mark (auscanuckafishy) for his input:

A selected strain from the A. jacobfreibergi variant from Otter Point to be exact. Now yes it can't be denied that there are a few variants from the otter point AREA, as in this area we have Otter Island, Thumbi West Is., Domwe Is., Cape Maclear, Zimbabwe Rock, Mumbo Is. These are all in the general area of otter point. However in my email to AK, I asked specifically for the exact location of the variant, and otter point was my answer. The way AK and his colleagues work on species is if there are more then 1 variant of a "species" at any one location, in other words if they are seen sympatrically, then one or the other is usually placed in a new species, usually with a working name, but now and again into a described species. So this eliminates any possibility of there being more then 1 variant of A. jacobfreibergi at Otter Point proper, the true location of the ancenstral Eureka's if you like.

I would also think that a description of a variant of jacobfreibergi would allow for a level of different placement of colouration, he did mention after all, that it is possible to have "Eureka-like" specimens in the lake. You yourself prefer different placement in your eureka-reds, in that you don't like any red in the dorsal fin, whereas many others are quite happy with red in the dorsal fin, i think this could well be interpreted as colour placement. I'm sure there are Eureka (the accepted ancestor of the Eureka Red) with plenty of colour in the dorsal.

We're also dealing with linebred fish once again, and perhaps the people who originally bred the Eureka's, and the Eureka-Reds selected for a slightly different fin shape, or perhaps the small gene-pool that they must have been working with, left the variety with this type of fin.

Here is the original fish from Otter point (which may have been enhanced digitally. I don't believe the red shows up that brightly on the wild fish)

Otter point jacob

Here is my old eureka red male:

Eureka red

Notice the way the white in the dorsal has been enhanced and the orange turned to red by use of linebreeding. If I hadmy way, I would breed the red completely out of the dorsal eventually and enhance the red on the flanks even further, while retaining the beautiful blue of the face and body.

I hope that answers your questions about eureka reds.

[Peter_Gun_Riff]

the first 1 is a mari gold peacock which is a hybrid their was a post on them reciently

[E4G13M4N]

Its not a marigold

Marigold are pinkish/gold similar to albino but with black eyes

[Josh]

Andy thats great info thanks alot for that, I got it wrong about the first fish being from the NSWCS auction. It was actually bought from a store in Sydney. I will tell him about it and I am sure he will do the right thing with it.

Josh and Evelyn