mianos Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Is anyone gonna say Herotilapia multispinosa (rainbow cichlids)? I'll vote for them. They are not as popular as convicts so the LFS might buy them. They are a nice looking fish. If fed well and happy they will pair off and breed. They tend the eggs, dig pits for the wrigglers and look after their fry (both male and female). They don't keep the fry in their mouth but they do move them around by sucking them up and spitting them back out into the fry cloud. Being an American fish they don't need any fancy buffering in the water, even to breed. They will eat anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.d.m Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 i think what you need to do is tour around some lfs and find some fish that YOU like,then go home and google them and if they are good doers and will breed in captivity then buy them, theres nothing worse than staring at a tank full of fish that you hate because someone told you theyd be good to start with, i started in this hobby 35 years ago, my first fish- a picasso trigger then on to invertibrates and butterfly fish(with nothing but a ug filter) everyone said i was mad , but i loved the fish and wasnt keen on mollies and guppies, im sure whatever you buy youll do your best by them and theyll reward you by breeding. just remember convict fry may be hard to dispose of , the adults are nearly impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tail Shark Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 WOW SLOW down im drowning i thought this was going to help me make a decision i think im more confused than when i started lol but thanks everyone given me a lot to digest i have bought some electric yellows but they are about 6-7 months off breeding age as for what tanks i have i have 1 4by18by2 1 6by18by18 1 2by18by2 2 small 40l tanks and a big 1 thousand litre drum cut down to hold 600l so i do have a little bit of room to move cheers Cal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 What's wrong with convicts? Nothing - but as a beginners cichlid in my opinion they arent anywhere near the best choice. I started out with convicts eleven years ago and was fairly disheartened when I couldnt even give the fry away. Here's two more good reasons why: 1. You cant keep much else with a pair. 2. They are pretty aggro - and sometimes you get the male killing the female etc. All of the choices I propose are, provided adequate research is done pre-purchase: Hardy. Easy to get to spawn. Fry are sellable (or give-away-able). Compatible with at least some other species (the case of multis is more restricted than most). Dark Morelia - Neither kribs nor Anomalochromis thomasi are mouthbrooding cichlids - I think you are using the word "African" here with a bit of undeserved derision - one is a cave spawner and the others an open spawner . I think you learn quite a lot by breeding any fish, convicts included. So I dont think a case can be made that one species is more informative than any other. I also agree that if RTS wants to breed a central american rainbow cichlids, cutter cichlid (A. septemfasciatus), sajica or blue eyed cichlids are all equally hardy (some are more peaceful than convicts also) and are much easier to unload to shops and other hobbyists. HTH and clarifies my position on this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Morelia Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 What's wrong with convicts? Nothing - but as a beginners cichlid in my opinion they arent anywhere near the best choice. I started out with convicts eleven years ago and was fairly disheartened when I couldnt even give the fry away. Nobody said they were the 'best' choice. RTS asked for suggestions for a beginner breeder, and that's what they got. Nobody said the suggestions had to be "perfect". As i already said in a previous post, i'll gladly accept any convict fry anyone is having trouble giving away. Here's two more good reasons why: 1. You cant keep much else with a pair. 2. They are pretty aggro - and sometimes you get the male killing the female etc. Not everyone is interested in fish that mingle easily. What causes you to state that "you can't keep much else with a pair" is a good reason why they're not a good beginner breeder's fish ? That is totally irrelevant in this context. We're not talking about setting up a Community tank ! I imagine there are many, many people out there who have strictly one species breeding tanks. Also, the so-called bad point of Intra-pair aggressiveness is pretty much part and parcel of breeding many Central Americans, so if you wanted to start breeding those types of fish, then the "Bad Point" of intra-pair aggressiveness would be cancelled out. Assuming that RTS wanted to breed species with a different mode of reproduction and a different personality than Convicts, then yes, they would be totally pointless, as RTS wouldn't learn much from them that would help to prepare them for those species they wish to breed. Dark Morelia - Neither kribs nor Anomalochromis thomasi are mouthbrooding cichlids - I think you are using the word "African" here with a bit of undeserved derision - one is a cave spawner and the others an open spawner. In case you forgot, i said, "What use are Convicts if RTS wants to breed mouth-brooding Africans ?" How do you construe that to suggest i meant that those species are mouth-brooders ? If, indeed, that is what you're hinting at here. I think you learn quite a lot by breeding any fish, convicts included. So I dont think a case can be made that one species is more informative than any other. Well said I also agree that if RTS wants to breed a central american rainbow cichlids, cutter cichlid (A. septemfasciatus), sajica or blue eyed cichlids are all equally hardy (some are more peaceful than convicts also) and are much easier to unload to shops and other hobbyists. Now this is what this thread should have been full of ! (IMO) Helpful suggestions. Not people's derisive opinions of certain species. It's not as if you're stuck forever with whatever species you choose ! It's not as if you can't move on to another species whenever you feel like it ! Subgirl - Your bit about trimacs obviously didn't come across the way it was supposed to. Of course you, and anyone else, are entitled to their own opinion, but the point i was trying to make was.... was it really neccessary to broadcast your negative opinion ? I don't think they are the holy grail of fish-keeping, far from it, in fact. But they are an all right beginner breeder's fish that i feel is being bagged unnesseccarily, because of a few small so-called "faults" that they have in common with many Central Americans, and one larger fault - disposing of fry - that can be dealt with. And thus i felt the need to defend them. The way i saw it is that it's up to RTS to consider which species they like, and which would be most suitable for their situation, not us. That is my opinion, and if you don't like it, ignore it. I guess what made me narky and defensive about this thread is the way so many people assumed certain things. Things in general, and also about RTS's situation and intents. it's something i'm seeing more and more of, and something that i get rather narky about. In summation, my narkiness hasn't really got much to do with Convicts at all, rather in people's inability to view something from another person's point of view, and also people's tendancy to assume things. Hope this explains my narkiness. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burek Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Convicts Ae good because they are hardy, cheap to buy, can breedin a small tank. its not all about just giveing or selling the fry away, some people like to keep the fry and not sell it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 DM - Perhaps we've got off on the wrong foot, but I still strongly disagree - while I like convicts still I dont think they are good beginners cichlids. You said: Nobody said the suggestions had to be "perfect". Me included. However, I wanted to suggest things that were preferable. What causes you to state that "you can't keep much else with a pair" is a good reason why they're not a good beginner breeder's fish ? That is totally irrelevant in this context. Not at all - this is completely relevant as beginners often want to breed multiple species in a single tank - keep dithers with the cichlids or other species of interest. We're not talking about setting up a Community tank ! Possibly not, but what if we are talking about breeding multiple cichlids in one tank? Dark - I meant no offense but you seem to have taken some. I started out with convicts myself and think they are a great species . Sadly there are too many of them around, and they are aggressive (more so than many similar sized spp.) - there are other similarly hardy species without any of the "faults". When ppl ask for suggestions I feel it is part of my duty to respond with the best suggestions I can manage - rather than just picking species at random. RTS - The upshot of this is simple - if you want to keep central americans, which are FANTASTIC fish - I'd still recommend A. sajica, A. spirulus, A. septemfasciatus any day, any time etc over convicts. Sorry to you had to read a thread that's become a little heated . HTH - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nannat Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 a friend of mine started out with convicts,he had fry fairly quickly and lost females almost as quickly as he could buy them.maybe if he had them for longer he would figure how to around the frustration of the losses but the more people he asked the more the poor old convict gets bagged out.bred for him strait away tho and he got a thrill out of it.ups and downs. a mouthbrooder will spit fry on its first try often enough to frustrate as andy said and are more expensive to buy as well as blake says.i think a beginner can mix species in a tank with success and enjoyment also. i know if rts has that many tanks to use there are many fish to fill them with and having smaller tanks for fry is a bonus it was a fairly broad question to ask 'which fish is best etc'as maybe rts would not even like the look of any of the suggested fih anyway though looks are nothing compared to how fish can fascinate in their behaviour.and fish almost breed readily if you do research to benefit them. there has been quite a bit of helpful info in this post, regarding how to choose. id suggest if you can, to check out as many varieties of fish in their breeding residences as you can before you go filling all them tanks.then that way you can be sure you have a picture if the fish in your mind before you ask for it by name.and you can be sure of getting what you asked for. in the range of aquarium fish available, there are many different names used for each fish and there are many many fish that can only be distinguished apart by using the full name of them.in time,rts probably will eventually discover that he/she prefers a unique fish to breed rather than elecricyelo or blu or whatever. of course the start of the quest for rts's desired fish would be to learn to keep fish,breed fish,care for fry and interact with other keepers to see their choice of fish and breeding habitats(tank setups) to find rts's desired fish/ so starting with something simple and affordable such as electric blue or yelo would be a real good bet i guess. i kinda got a little side tracked in answering the question on suggesting a fish i think ive written more along the lines of 'what is keeping fish about 'well its like that for me anyway. so heres my suggestion.get something popular to start with.and source it from different origins. that way you can interact with others more and learn of their opinions face to face.a popular fish is in my opinion one that is easily breedable.and nice looking too and colourful and common.common because lots of people enjoy them.there are more people who know about popular fish 's ways than there is people who know about their own less popular fish.choose a poular fish then try it yourself and interact with other popular fish owners and you will learn the easiest way to look after fish.you will discover that as your fish grow they have larger broods of fry.you can be overrun with them. if you get tired of that you may choose to move onto this; there are sought after fish also;they are sought after because they may take more knowledge of research tricks to breed that is why they are sought after and usually more expensive.take them on later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subgirl Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Of course you, and anyone else, are entitled to their own opinion, but the point i was trying to make was.... was it really neccessary to broadcast your negative opinion ? Yes. All fish have negative sides, why hide them ?? Would be a real shame if no one spoke out about their negative experiences with a certain fish, only to see some one else who asked for advice to go and buy these fish and be disapointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetfish Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 RTS After asking for simple advice ur topic went of track a bit. My advice is to go to the LFS and look at the cichlids and choose the one that catches your eye. That way u will be happy with what ever fish u bring home. look up its requiements through a google search and go from there. u could end up with any sort of cichlid this way. This is how I started with them and my first fish was a cobolt blue They are pretty tolerant fish, as long as you dont stray to far from the basic requirements then all should be good. Sometimes the best lessons learnt are learnt the hard way. Wetfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 i have bought some electric yellows Congratulations on making a decision RTS Another case of mountains out of molehills Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folkner Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I agree after just reading this it went off track. RTS, I assume from your original post you had concerns about milking fish. At the end of the day there are other ways to save your fry besides milking the mother. Creating a floater and putting the female in it after a few weeks will work and she will over time release the fry and you can put her back in the tank. The yellows that you bought are a great introduction to africans and will always have a value to the hobby. So just keep the water quality the best you can and they will do their thing in a few months. You will see when the female has a mouthful. I record the day I spot it on a calender and 14 days later I will catch and either milk her or drop her in a floater. Everyone will make mistakes when breeding but as others have said spot something you like and give it a go. If you get stuck on something just ask on the forum and we as a collective will help out. By the way everyone, I started with Convicts 14 years ago and love them. I have just got another group for the fun of it and await them to lay eggs. I think it is a shame that they breed too easy as they are an attractive american dwarf. Regards folkner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tail Shark Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 being that convicts are so controversial does anyone have a breeding pair the would be willing to part with, let us know cheers cal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryadorer Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I think neo. brichardi would be a good newbie fish to breed, i mean im a newbie and they breed for me when i had only had them for 2 weeks. i also think rivulatus would be a good fish to keep, i havent breed them as such but my female i had with some oscars spawned 3 times the half a year i had her...and there wasnt even a male Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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