Brayden's dad Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 G'day all, As you all know, nitrate is a definite no-no in a Marine tank. Some of the methods to combat nitrate build up in a SW tank is by the use of a refugium, a deep sand bed or, more recently, a coil denitrator. I've kept Oscars for years but never really concerned myself with the nitrate levels. I don't think it matters in a FO FW tank, however, I also didn't know alot of stuff before I started on this forum. So do nitrate levels matter? Do they affect the fish in any way, shape or form? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeyBoyR Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Anything over 20ppm can become an issue, so yes, nitrate does matter. IME it isnt hard to keep ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all at zero. If you're constantly getting a nitrate reading perhaps you need to examine what could be causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Blake how, in your experience, would you keep nitrates in an oscar tank at zero? Surely your not thinking the oscars would let the plants alone. Water changes are the most effective way of diluting the nitrate levels to get it to a safer reading. However, if you wanted to provide a nitrate removal filter for your oscar tank/s you could look into a coil denitrator (yes they work well in fresh too) or a plenum system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Blake how, in your experience, would you keep nitrates in an oscar tank at zero? Surely your not thinking the oscars would let the plants alone. Very good question. Plants are not an option. However, if you wanted to provide a nitrate removal filter for your oscar tank/s you could look into a coil denitrator (yes they work well in fresh too) or a plenum system. This is what I was contemplating should I need to do something about nitrate levels. Do you have one? I know how to make them & know the theory behind them. Can you post a picture or email a picture to me, please? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Sorry Troy, I have considered making plenum's but I just do it the old fashioned way, plenty of water changes Although I do have some java fern in my African tanks which makes a surprising difference to nitrate build up. Although, due to the constant abuse it receieves I wouldn't recommend it for display tanks, in breeding tanks it grows and repopulates faster than the adults tear it up most of the time. In the fry tanks it is doomed That way my fish get constant fresh water added, and my mums gardens get waste and nutrient rich water (which is far more beneficial than twice the equivalent amount of tap water esp. in this draught). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeyBoyR Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 How do you keep nitrates at zero? Massive amounts of filtration and regular water changes. And you might get the occasional raise in nitrate of course, but as a general rule, I dont think it is impossible to keep nitrate to an almost non-existant level, even in an oscar tank. As for your question about plenums BD, look up Jaubert Cavity on google. Theyre easy to make using an undergravel plate and different thickness gravels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 draught or drought?? Sorry Ducky...couldn't resist Andrea PS>running a towel along the bottom of the fish room door will help with your draught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Sorry merjo, I been thinking about that first Carlton Draught all day at work, sends the brains a little crazy Anyway, you know what I meant I am off to get that beer in me now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I dont think it is impossible to keep nitrate to an almost non-existant level, even in an oscar tank. ← you haven't kept many large americans have you? when my tanks get a waterchange, they usually get down to about 5ppm. I try to stretch out to two weeks if possible for the next change, by which time it's about 40+ppm - then I do a 70% change (like I do every fortnight) and it skyrockets again, rinse repeat. you can literally have it go from 5ppm to 10ppm in a couple of days, easy get over 20ppm in a week - and I don't overfeed these guys either! then there's my planted tank which goes from 20ppm to zero in two days, wonder why I wanna plumb em all together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 maybe wc 50% everyday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Sorry Troy, I have considered making plenum's but I just do it the old fashioned way, plenty of water changes Although I do have some java fern in my African tanks which makes a surprising difference to nitrate build up. Not an option with big boofheaded Oscars. I have an understanding of a plenum, albeit a rough understanding, but I don't think this is an option either given large fishes liking of construction (destruction?) work. I had most of the gear together to build a denitrator coil, but the cost of filling it with bio balls turned me off it. BUT NOW that I have discovered this website & trofius' revelation of the miracle known as gutterguard, I'm glad I kept the parts. Alot of the literature I've read about denitrator loops is sceptical mainly because it is a relatively new item. But the people that have them tuned correctly swear by them. I suppose it's like Billy Joel's music - you either love it or hate it (excuse me here while I just dodge the bullets ) Anyone had any experiences with denitrator loops? Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 they are one of the things I've always meant to get around to trying, but never have actually tried DIY links there's 9 listings under denitrator on there, not all worked IIRC tho edit: Well damn it, I'm doing it today. just the simple 6-8mm tube only version - they say you only need 15-25feet, so I'm gunna do a 7m (~22') run on each of my tanks with trickle filters & see what happens. They say you can "feed" them initially with some sugar or something, to get the aerobic bacteria going - it's said to speed up the transition to anerobic. Meh, we shall see - in a month I'll report if there are any nitrate diffs from the denitrater output & the tank itself, then in 6 weeks, 8weeks etc till it does or doesn't give a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Well for $21.12 I've made three 7m long 5mm clear vinyl coils. There were hardly any fittings, even at irrigation places they jumped from 4mm to 13mm!! The 4mm push in dripper fittings worked nicely into my 19mm black PVC return lines (from sump pump to tank) and the 5mm vinyl line sealed okish onto the 4mm barbs of the dripper fitting & taps. I could have used 6mm hose & cable ties as clamps in retrospect (as I cable tied the 5mm on anyway) but what's done is done. They are all set to a fast drip, whatever that works out to. I'll try to report back in a few months, tho at only about $7 each it isn't much loss if it doesn't work. We shall see I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Get some pics Ash? So you have a return line from a sump right? And the drip line runs back into the sump? Is clear going to work? I thought the bacteria that you need to colonise the inner walls of the drip line needed total dark as well as slow flow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 This article on the krib that I used for destructions --> click me At one point he said he used clear tubing, at another he suggested black It's inside a cabinet so it's in the dark anyway, hopefully dark enough? *shrugs* you want a pic? it's a coil of hose with a tap on the end Nar, here you go - dodgy MSpaint & MSword skillz combine on my dodgy webpage my camera's bunk so I can't do much better I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yea that is what I was picturing in my head Only by pic I meant actual photo LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 if the camera wasn't dead, I'd have took a photo just finished testing the flow rate of one of them (all set to look the same) comes to 2.4lph so it should be slow enough, old mate on thekrib was running his at 3lph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 This was the design I was getting ready for, http://www.aloha.net/~hqf/indexdondenitrator.htm I've got the PVC tube & now I can fill it with gutterguard as opposed to bioballs (won't that be a saving ). I'll drop a few bioballs down the guts of the gutterguard to fill up the empty space. Don't hold your breath waiting for results from mine....I've just sold the old tank & waiting for some money to come through before I can get the new one . Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 He didn't mention how long the coiled tube should be on that link (not that I saw) that design just gives more surface area via expensive means, instead of just having a longer tube which is simpler, less likely to leak and stacks cheaper. whatever works I guess hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayden's dad Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 This is the link that better explains it, Ash, http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blan...nitratornew.htm That website was where I first saw the idea. whatever works I guess hey ← You're right. I think the main problem with this idea is that it's not proven therefore not accepted by all. As I said in a previous post, some people swear by it, other's swear at it. Me? Well, I'm going to try it. It's not like I'm laying out big $$$$ for a Calcium Reactor. It's only a couple of dollars. Be sure to let me know how you go. Best regards, Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 thread from the dead! I forgot to post back at the 4 week point so here's week 6 3 tanks with the 7m simple coil denitrators tee'd into the sump return lines, results as follows.... Tank 1: Upstairs display 4x2x2 (mixed CA/SA's) last waterchange: 50% 1 week ago tank nitrate: 5ppm denitrator nitrate: neg. notes: this is the tank with the coil in complete darkness within a cabinet the waterflow had almost stopped since it was reset last waterchange, readjusted to test Tank 2: Red's tank 4x2x2 (large RD with umpteen convicts) last waterchange: 50% two weeks ago tank nitrate: 10ppm denitrator nitrate 5ppm notes: coil had most light of any of the tanks (open stand under house) waterflow as per Tank 1 Tank 3: BN & Sev tank Std 4' last waterchange: 50% two weeks ago tank nitrate: 5ppm denitrator nitrate: 5ppm notes: this tank has an open back cabinet that lets in more light than Tank 1 but way less than Tank 2 flow was much higher than other tanks - suspect user error at last reset (doh!) All tests were done with a Hagen nitrate test kit as per instructions. From these results it appears the anerobic bacteria required for denitrification can be established within 6 weeks & a simple denitrator consisting of airline & a tap can have an effect on nitrate buildup. Food for thought, I'm thinking of adding a few more of these to the return lines to multiply the effect. Cheers Ash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptfish Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 thread from the dead! :bigsmile: Food for thought, I'm thinking of adding a few more of these to the return lines to multiply the effect. Cheers Ash ← Ash, Did you try multiple return lines? What is the result? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I didn't on my tanks, however I recently set up pairs of 10m lines on a pair of 8x2's but they haven't cycled yet - actually reading higher nitrate than the tank! (this is normal in the cycle process of a denitrator as there has to be regular aerobic colonies first to strip the O2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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