fronts aren't breeding

[frontoes]

Hi guys,

What are the parameters for breeding fronts? I haven’t had any spawn for the last 12 months. I don’t add anything into my water except Prime, feed them once a day on Hikari and do 15% water changes once every week.

 

Does any one know the parameters for breeding thes beauitful cichlids?

 

Thanks

 

Ed

[frontoes]

Btw, the ratio is 1 male to 5 females 

[Link2Hell]

what are your water parameters ? perfect, spot on and all good is not an answer

what species of Frontosa/Gibberosa are they ?

WC or local bred ?

do you feed high protein like marinara mix, prawns etc ?

 

[Buccal]

A big question also is how old are they ?

how long had they been breeding for when they were ?

fish pass their prime breeding times and go on big breaks to.

[maxib]

You said you didn't really add anything to water. I don't know what your water source is but I would assume most water in Australia would have a low kh and gh unless it was from a bore.

you may need to add cichlid buffer and cichlid lake salt.

[Stoney2]

In addition to all said above, how about throwing another male in the tank, your one male may have gotten lazy and a bit of competition might be the spur he needs.

[frontoes]

They are WC Kitumba and the male is around 23 cm long. 

I've tried before adding another male (biggest mistake) and the next day I was him floating in between rocks badly beaten up while the males and females looked like as if nothing happened. 

I'll test the water tonight... 

What ph level do they prefer for breeding?

 

[jebe]

That's never a nice thing to find when introducing a new fish. I have found when adding new fish into an already established group that a good way to introduce a newbie is to do so during a water change, mixing the tank up as I go and removing anything they use to define as their territory "big pots,rock etc" and then make sure you're about to keep an eye on their progress. If they do get their angry on I have also used large nets "like the landing nets fishermen use to land their catch" placed them onto the tank suspending them and then place the dominant fish into the next for a day or two then try all over again. 

As far as breeding conditions I have found water changes seem to prompt randiness. Keep to your routine make sure your water parameters are consistent, to me this is more important than sticking to any arbitrary figures and feed them good quality food. They are big, long lived fish they do things slowly give them time.

I personally would bump up your water change percentage 15% is a little stingy IMO.

HTH

Cheers

Justin 

[Buccal]

14 hours ago, frontoes said:

They are WC Kitumba and the male is around 23 cm long. 

I've tried before adding another male (biggest mistake) and the next day I was him floating in between rocks badly beaten up while the males and females looked like as if nothing happened. 

I'll test the water tonight... 

What ph level do they prefer for breeding?

 

Forget what your ph is,,, get your GH and KH 10-12.

the correct KH levels will buffer the ph to approx 8.5-9.2.

Your KH levels determines where your PH remains.

 

I think you just need to be patient and keep everything as stable as possible,,, they are maybe on a off cycle and will start breeding again when they are ready.

 

Still be good to know how old they are and how long they were breeding for......

[Link2Hell]

I'm guessing younger than 3 yrs which seems to be the number with WC

did you check water parameters the person you bought them from had them in

I agree with Buccal that once you check your readings they will need to buffed gradually

as it is also trace elements that could be missing along with hardness

Seachem or Aqua Pics (made in Melb by Scott Haymes has good reports)

[Chuckmeister]

large(r) water changes can sometimes bring on fish too... 10 to 15 percent are smaller water changes imo and 25 to 30 percent is a better number for tanganyikans with the occassional 50 percent. Sometimes the large change can stimulate the fish to breed. I'd work on water parameters first as suggested combined with water changes when needed.

[Buccal]

Yes,,, it's sometimes the water changes that replenishes the KH in small amounts that exists in tap water,, also tap water having a fair few trace elements which are usually only needed in small amounts compared to the constituents that generate KH and GH readings.

So sometimes what is lacking from being used up by the fishes bodily functions, beneficial bacteria throughout filter and tank and chemical processes that take place,,,,, can be replaced but only minimal through new water into the tank.

But when you use generic buffers and trace elements as link mentioned above, it replaces and for fills exact required measurement of everything that's needed for a healthy environment and fish.   (Mimicking nature).

 

I have no experience with aquapics products, but with seachem products I do.

So when looking at cost,,, make sure you factor in the actual concentration of the product,,, meaning, whilst a product may be 30% more expensive it might make up twice the doses of its comparison,,, so even though it's stamped with a higher price it's actually cheaper.

 

Many breeders have success without additives, and the outcomes vary depending on your water source (eg, my tap water in Perth may have a higher KH than another persons tap water in Sydney).

But sooner or later at some point, the breeder hits little dead ends and tries to learn the optimum fish requirements and follows through,,,,, and realizes what we are all discussing here is very real.

Its all about how the fishes body regulates these salts and trace elements between their bodies and the external environment being water through cellular osmosis called the osmaregulartory system.

[frontoes]

How do I increase the KH and GH? 

I've got crush coral as my substrate which it is good thing.

[Buccal]

Honestly mate, regardless of what others say and confuse you,, yes crushed coral steers your KH in the correct direction, but there's no measure and no consistency.

 

Do it the fool proof best way, buy Malawi Cichlid buffer or generator and follow instructions.

I highly reccomend seachem Malawi or Rift buffer.

Not salts or trace elements but these would benefit for sure,,,, but actual BUFFER will raise and stabilize KH GH and Ph.

 

But your first step is to buy a KH and GH test kit to test your tank water (at least 1-3 days before your next water change).

Then test your water straight out of your tap or where ever it's coming from.

 

Get back to us with your two new readings, and we can send you in the right direction.

[wildcaught]

Hi

Frontosas are not hard to breed.

My tank setup in the past. Hope it works for you

Tank size : 4ft x 2 x 2 

Frontosas: 1 male (30cms) / 4 females (18-25 cms)

Coral sand (2cms layer thick)

correction: Seachem Malawi Buffer

1 large pot for the male to hide

food: large sinking protein pellets plus prawns and krills once spawn

Fortnightly, 25-30% water change (prime from the drum) and add 2-3 teaspoon of buffer

Make sure you clean the coral sand with a gravel siphon vacuum. 

I never bother to measure pH, KH or GH as the coral sand + buffer will take care of it.

Also a good filter

 

By the way, how big are your female frontosas ?

I think you have a young colony of frontosas. That is why they are not breeding yet

[Buccal]

Wildcaught,,,.   You say you never bother to measure KH GH and PH,,, because your coral sand and buffer take care of it.

 

So,,,,, how do you know it's taking care of it then ??????

 

And if it is taking care of it,,, then your just taking pot shots and jagging it.

 

YOU HAVE TO TEST,,,, WHY ?,,,, TO FIND OUT HOW MUCH BUFFER TO ADD ON A REGIME BASIS TO MAINTAIN STABLE LEVELS.

Usually testing is done often when starting out to find required dosing, after that it's the very occasional check up to be sure your on track.

 

Fronts take 1.5-3.5 years of age to breed,, sometimes half a year either way of this realm.

All up you should get a good 2-4 years of breeding from them.

 

But unfortunately this poster asking for help isn't giving correct details in answering our questions to be properly helped.

[Buccal]

Humor:

You.  My humans won't breed, what do I do.

Me.   how old are they ?

You.  i got 6x humans

Me.  how old are they ?

You.  i got 2x male and 4x female

Me.  how old are they ?

You.  how do I make the correct air chemistry ?

Me.  How old are they ?

 

FINALLY I get a answer and you say,       "my humans are all 3 years old so they should of had bred by now".

lol, you might know what you know,,,, but we don't know what you know,,, lol.

have a careful read of this without being offended,,, my point in all this works very well in your personal life to.

 

You might think,,, that was weird, your weird buccal.

Incorrect,,, it's very weird your expecting humans to breed at 3 years old,,, it takes at least 14-18 years of age to breed your humans.

Myself, I prefer breeding Italians and Greeks,,, they are much all round smarter and fitter than any other human types.....       

[wildcaught]

It is taking care of because it keeps breeding 

From experience, they are not fussy with water parameters.

Like my catfish, I measure the TDS, KH,GH, pH, ammonia,nitrates, nitrites and still cant get them to spawn 

@ Chris, your beer is not ready. I need more tips re:catfish 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buccal]

Mate, fish breed when water is not correct, and fish breed when water is correct also.

Fish don't breed when water is not correct, and don't breed water is correct also.

just because a breeders fish are breeding, it doesn't mean he's gun and the water is what it should be.

Having correct water could mean that fish live longer and breed longer.

I think you'd find Burundi breed way easier then a lot of rarer types.

peoples Malawi/tang fish breed in incorrect water,,, but correct water takes things much further. (Could mean that frontosa's keep breeding much longer).

 

WAY OF TRACK TO SAY YOU DONT HAVE TO TEST TO GET IT RIGHT, ESPECIALLY AS ADVICE.

IF YOU GIVE ADVICE, IT MUST BE PRECISE AND THOROUGH.

JUST BECAUSE ITS WORKING FOR YOU, IT DOESNT MAKE IT SO.

 

Ive bred orange head tapajos and various other neutral and slightly acid loving fish in super hard water,,,,  but I don't tell people to do what I do, I give them the advice on the factual specie requirements.

What if his water supply is close to correct hardness already and you tell him to through all that junk in ????

You need to test to at least get on track.

What you just said is a bit nooby.

[wildcaught]

Ive bred orange head tapajos and various other neutral and slightly acid loving fish in super hard water,,,,  but I don't tell people to do what I do, I give them the advice on the factual specie requirements.

THAT IS YOUR CHOICE!  and why only measure KH, GH and pH???  That is a BIG nooby !

"But your first step is to buy a KH and GH test kit" 

This is a forum. Stop being narrow in your views and let others share their experience. 

 

Hi Ed,

Your first step is to tell us roughly the age of your fish. The size of your fish might help but not certain.

If  your fish is not breeding size (male and females), it aren't going to breed even with perfect water parameter.  

Also, what is your tank size and filter?

Take a photo and the setup of your tank.

Thanks

[Buccal]

Staying civil,,,,, getting a little contradictive now,, re-read from start of of all these posts.

cant light the candle without a match trick hey.

GH, KH and PH and age is what I initially asked,,,,,, and these are the first top questions to get a fast narrow down.

If the fish are just getting past three years old,, then start maybe being concerned that they haven't started yet.

Burundi's you should get 2-4 years breeding,, but other locational types can be more intermittent breeders (small size spawns with not much of a cycle).

quickly run my experience based on them,,, which is where I got my answers from. ( also knew all the info before I'd ever kept them).

so first breeding room I had was tiny, I designated my office in house (4.5 m x 5.5m).

in there I had a 6 x 2 x 2,,,   2m 8f   F.burundi, got them at 9cm.

they took a year and a half to breed, and all females were well and viable.

males at each end of tank happy with their own halves of a large terra cotta pots.

could be as many as 3 females wanting to breed at the same time.

pumped so many fry out for me it was a joke, I did really well on them all that time ago.

That went for 2.5 years.

then I built my facility to super stock.

i shifted Malawis into new breed room first.

after 3 months and centrifugal system had matured, then the tangs were bought across.

one week after Burundi got shifted, one female spawned, a truckload.

after this is weird,, they never ever spawned again, I hung on to them for another year.

so I traded them in,  as I think even though furnishings in tank was matched the fish were older and set in.

so I had kept all that recent fry for security, and now 1 year old.

now they reach 1.2 years old, and I find a nice little colony of young Kipilli x 8, and they were f1, and very blue.

and yep chucked them all together,,,, and yeah I know,,,,, but the two species look completely different.

so,,, another 3 months further on, what do you know the Burundi sparks up breeding,,,, surprising big viable spawns straight off.

i took the fry and fed them to my ray pups.  (Even though fairly certain it was a male Burundi I didn't see it happen)

again they bred, that was it, I got rid of all the Burundi and left the Kipilli.

another 1.5 years later the Kipilli started so that makes them 3 years of age till spawning.

they don't breed anything like Burundi do.

 

Many people not knowing much on them get confused frontosa's and gibberosa.

seen many people having gibbs and calling them fronts.

 

 

[PlecoSam]

Have you tried, mood lighting with Barry White music?

[Chuckmeister]

I broke all my barry white albums after my missus wouldn't leave me alone :P...there is no mood lighting other than lights off

[Buccal]

The song "IVE BEEN STROKEN" been stroking to the left, been stroken to the right, I've been stroken.

this works best,,,,,, gets them very jiggy with it.

[wildcaught]

A great story teller 

Never narrow your views in just water parameters. 

I have 20x tanks and bred hundreds whether it is 6bars or 7bars.

I have one tank in the kids room where IF I don't block the front glass panel, it wont breed. External distractions 

play apart. I am sure others will disagree with me but that is my experience.