AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Just another quick idea. Wouldn't this work in the same way as a hang on the back and FBF filter? Only this wouldn't hang... it would just sit. I am making my own stand and could make a place for it to sit. Wouldn't it do just the same thing, if not better? How it works: 1. Sucks up water through the power head. 2. That water is directed through a tube into the base of the PVC Pipe. 3. The water travels up through the filter media. 4. It is then releases (HOB filter style) into the tank There is no priming, and if the power goes the water stays in the pipe and tank. It would work ok with bioballs and sand wouldn't it? Would it have the same Mechanical filtration efficiency? 1st Idea or 2nd Idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Or an external water pump could be used? If this idea is good... does anyone know a good quality external water pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianos Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I can't see any reason why the system would not work much the same way with an submerssible power head. Just put the power head under the water. It will still get the water from the tank to the box as long as the head has 10cm lift (which is almost any one known to me). I'd mount the power head with the inlet above the power head so if there is a leak outside it can't empty the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I guess the only thing to look out for is if the pump siphons when it stops rotating. I got a batch of cheapie submersible pumps that will backsiphon if the power stops. Now I only use them for water changes. The external pump seems to be a better idea beacuse the heat rejection from it will be mostly to the room instead of the water. Not a worry now, but I think everyone remembers summer, high temps, dead fish, etc etc. Looks like a simple and elegant solution. Sweet piece of engineering IMHO. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 And to make it a bit more efficient: http://www.geocities.com/fishkeepersaustra...-HAWK/Setup.JPG I'll give it a go and post the results. However this won't be for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Ouch. I don't doubt that the additional redundancy would be more efficient but the maintenance on that baby looks to be quite significant. Let alone the back-pressure and flow-loss from such a complex system. Also, aren't FBF meant to work on the basis of positive pressure from the bottom to keep the sand or other filtration media in suspension? Down-pressure into a closed chamber filled with sand would lead to a clog, wouldn't it? Or am I totally misguided? Would this design with multiple up-pressure (ie bottom to top flow) be more effective? I've heard that this design strips oxygen from the water column aggressively and has a short life span in the event of a power off. ie bacterial population depleted within a few hours or so. When it is running, it's very effectie and efficient as a biological filter. Wasn't there a recent thread here that covered a nice, simple, high volume, twin chamber device that was elegant and simple and well engineered? Nonetheless - love to see that one in action or at least know its results. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Good points OziOscar (lol, you have got me thinking ). I plan to have a large pump on the system (around 4000lph) and probably not so many chambers. There will also be an airstone in each setup (not each chamber). Could I not use the system like an Aquaclear 500 for example, and use it for mechanical filtration? And I will try and get greater diameter pvc pipes (so it won't be so high) and therefore easier to clean... probably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Morelia Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Hey Alex, Great Minds huh ? I put up a post on an idea like this i had a while ago..... see Here Is that the one you meant OziOscar ? I've only just found a nice bit of PVC (i'm such a cheapo ) so i can actually start on it now. Last time i did a big water change though, i forgot to pull the tank forward a bit so it'll fit behind but by the time i finish the filter, i will have moved the tank Whoever finishes theirs first will hafta let the other know how it goes Don't forget that if you have a power failure, your air stones aint gonna keep the bacteria alive either GL ! Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 lol . What type of filter media do you plan on putting in it and what size diameter pvc are you going to use (still planning on using 4-6" PVC)? lol... good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes, as a mechanical and biological filter with shorter fatter chambers I'm guessing it would be a very sweet rig. As an FBF it might not be so sweet. There was a recent (last month or so) thread that covered a design pretty much like yours, but I can't find it right now. I think it linked to some offsite pics of the filter system as components and going through assembly. It looked pretty well designed too. Maybe a lengthy browse through back-numbers might help you. Cheers - OziOscar. PS Morelia: I liked your design a LOT, but there was another one that was based on a couple of short-ish chunky PVC pipes and a strong pump. It was quite close to AUS-HAWK's external design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 I'll have a look for that post. Thanks for all the great info guys. It's been really helpful. And if I was to use an external pump, what brand would you recomend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 <<grin>> I would recommend Grundfos as they're completely serviceable (all components are replaceable) and will probably last longer than you or I... but they are very $$$$ up front. It's just a water pump, so see if you can find any Jap or German items or used industrial gear that you can disassemble and clean. Often you can add or remove impeller vanes individually to alter the flow rate / line pressure. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUS-HAWK Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 I'll check them out. What are these like: http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/en-gb/dept_169.html http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/category50_1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 They both look good. The Aqua Medic range has a really good reputation among the marine keepers I know... They last well and do what they promise. Occasional failures, but that's par for the course with any long-run electrical gear. But after seeing the HZS-280 External Pump all I can say is "Hoo-hah!!" That is one serious looking pump! Its bigger brothers look quite similar in design to the Grundfos gear but a lot less expensive. I don't know about the reputation of that pump design but I am willing to guess it's pretty good as those guys don't tend to sell substandard gear (IME). Right-sizing depends on the tank size and the intended population. If you go for 8 - 10X then you can do controlled crowding almost to the point of overstocking and still be pretty sure it will work well. Bigger is better - there is no such thing as overfiltration (well - unless your fish get plastered to the glass by the current :D). It's just a research thing. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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