Vicious Camel Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi all, Just wondering if it would be possible to apply the concept of the DSB (as used by the reef guys) to a freshwater aquarium? Would be really easy to put it in a sump. Using these, the reefers are able to keep nitrates at near zero! Any chance they'd work for us too? thanks and cheers VC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 No because fresh water doesn't support the same types of creatures that make DSB's work. The little creatures work by aerobic and anaerobic action in the different depths, which is fine in saltwater as it is where they live. So in short, no it won't work. You will get lots of dead material collecting towards the bottom of the bed because there are no organisms in there to process it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett4Perth Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 There are organisms that remove nitrates from fresh water very efficiently ... they are called plants Floating plants are particularly good provided they get adequate illumination. As Andy said, the deep sand beds don't seem to be as effective in fresh water. Not really sure why this is, perhaps it is because we rarely use plenums. Cheers Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23Skidoo Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 It is technically possible, but it would take alot of effort to collect the various anelids, crustaceans and micro-organisms that would perform the funtion, and then convince your fish not to eat them. As they do not reproduce or colonise in the same manner or mass that thier saltwater equivalents do, it would definately be something for a sump, and would probably involve quite a diverse array of fauna, including crabs, shrimp, mussels, worms and bacteria. As to how to keep them alive, your guess is as good as mine. But this post has definately made me want to find out. So i'm going to get a tub up and running and go on a few fact finding mission to see what i can find to live in the tub, i'm sure shrimp will be involved here somewhere and large numbers of mussels. A plenum would probably be needed to allow for anaerobic orgs... So much to think about... so many possibilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi guys, Anthony (NSWCS President & Auburn Aquarium rep) gave a talk on plenums at the NSWCS some time in the last year. He used the concept for a few Tanganyikan tanks - I think as an experiment to see how long he could go without a water change. I think he said he managed to go 14 months, with no nitrates. But the water got pretty yellow, so he said for aesthetic reasons he wouldn't recommend the no water changes method, but the plenum worked fine. No mention of any requirement for anything special in the way of micro-organisms. I too was very interested in the idea, but I have an established, bow-front tank. I didn't want to tear it down, just to install a plenum, and anyway, the non-rectangular shape of my tank means it wouldn't be easy to get undergravel filter plates to cover the whole of the bottom of the tank. When I get my next tank, I'm definitely going to consider it. Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett4Perth Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 would probably involve quite a diverse array of fauna, including crabs, shrimp, mussels, worms and bacteria My understanding is that the removal of nitrates is only performed by bacteria. Even then it only seems to occur in anoxic conditions, hence the requirement for a deep sand bed that has a variety of oxygen concentrations/ reduction potential. Cheers Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inspector rex Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Is it possible to have 25cm deep sand in a brackish aquarium (sg about 1.016) without having problems with hydrogen sulphide? One day i want to make an aquarium with a beach for crabs, and have a sump and solenoids so i can have a tide. If i did make a beach, i would have real fine silty sand so food cant sink into the substrate. Would this be enough to stop to much hydrogen sulphide forming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiona Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 After that talk from Anthony I set up a tank with a plenum and then a bit later another one. I haven't tested for nitrates in either though. However all seems happy in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23Skidoo Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Brett4perth, you are right there, but a big problem is that the bacteria that consumes the nitrates keep on reproducing and when they get in large enough numbers there isn't enough nitrate to keep them fed, so they have a massive die out, this is a cause of nitrate spikes. So by including a more diverse selection of micro fauna they will hopefully predate the bacteria, keeping the population in a constant state of increase/decrease. And in conjuction with a planted sump, not only with nitrates and ammonia be kept very low, but the possibility of microscopic organisms moving from the sump to the tank is a bonus for me, as it would solve my problem with raising live micro-foods for fry. It's a sort of balance you need to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarvegorilla Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Live mangrove mud is awesome for brackish crab tanks. With the sand beds I have been trying to get an eggcrate layer then panty hose then sand....... Well I have it but these things take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 i might be wrong but i always thought bacteria broke down ammonia to nitrite. They actually don't do anything to nitrates. Plants, regular water changes, nitrate sponges, purigen etc. r the things that keep the nitrate levels in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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