aulonarcara "red flurecent"

[wetfish]

does any body out there know or have heard of a line breed aulonarcara called a "Red Fluresent"

it was sold to me not that long ago by Rod Wallace as a german import line breed f2.

i was looking for something rare. i wanted to breed a fish that would spark interest with cichlid enthusiests and rod put me onto this fish.

can anyone help me with contacting me with other breeders or people who have had experiance with this fish

[canerod]

hey wetfish

i could only come up with 2 possibilities, and if we are talking red then the most likely would be,Aulonocara "German Red" Common Name: German Red, RUBESCENSE, Rubin Red, these were bred in germany and are a man made variety.

The other fish with a similar name to the one u give is, Aulonocara Steveni "Usisya" This peacock is called the FLAVESCENT Peacock but it is yellow not red.

other than that maybe a picture of your fish would help someone ID it.

[wetfish]

thanx for ur response. heres the deal i can rule out "usisya" because i had someone view the fish and that option was instantly dismised. as for the "German Red" i also dont think so. these guys are the same colour as a female p. saulosi or gold fish.

i do have a pic. but i dont know how to pin it into this box. any tips ???

[Mbuna]

wetfish's Aulonacara - sorry it took so long

[wetfish]

Any ideas ??????

[Guest Gutty]

This is what i'd call a red flourecent... (fish picture is a red rubin fed on spectrum laced with Naturose Astaxanthin)

As for your fish, i have no idea but i'll bet my left one you're correct in it being a line bred morph. Nothing like that is made in the lake.

I'd even go so far as to call in a hybrid as i can't think of a single natural species that looks anything like that other than those pale orange fellas people are passing off as albinos. But i think even they are line bred.

[saudukar]

Wetfishes pictures makes me suspicous to the exact background of the fish.

The yellow peacock in the picture definately doesnt naturally occur in malawi.

The flank of the fish in the picture is also looks slightly elongated (it may be the picture). Also the head doesnt seem quite right. The slope of the forehead and circular drop from the nose ridge is suspect.

It is definatly "peacockesque" but line bred variants are always suspect unless you see and view the parents and the parents-parents.

Using terminology like F2 is never quite correct where the F0 orgin is already known to be non-wild. People use it as a reference from the ideal parent to subsquent offspring.

This fish could be a "throwback" lutino from either a albino and/or regular peacock line. Or the line could contain dominate lutino genes from ANY peacock species/location. As determining a location of a lutino would be impossible as most peacocks are described by colour rather then physical characteristics.

I am going on the lutino quess because the fishes eyes are slightly different then normal and the yellow pigmentation (or lack of other pigmentation) seems fairly spread over the whole fish. Normally you wouldnt see such a saturation of yellow pigmentation naturally over a peacock WITHOUT normal grey/brown somehere on the fish (underside/chin/mouth/flank).

Even the gillplate armour is lacking pigmentation (looks sort of pink). Normally this is very dark.

[wetfish]

i can asure u that this fish is a line breed fish, what its parents where i cannt tell u.

the fish in the photo is a young male so that pink arround the gill plate is the adult colour starting to show

If i where to breed these fish what would the general consensis be on the fry. would people steer clear of them, consernd that it is a hybrid or will they accept it as another line breed fish? the same way people have accepted the "Eureka Red"

i would like to think someone with the experiance and reputation of Mr Wallace would only deal with legitimate stock. (non hybrid)

as for strange head and eyes i dont know, i think the camera angle plays a part in that.

thanx for u repleys

[saudukar]

People generally accept that line bred peacocks are generally held to a standard of non-conformity. (like that for a oxymoron!)

Being that if it looks like a peacock and it has cool colours people will call it line bred. Where the line was bred and by who and for what end result is usually a guess if you dont know the parents or the parents-parents or what moral conviction the breeders 4 generations back had.

There are literally too many peacock subspecies and location variants to isolate where a line began and where it finished. You can only hope the line you have gathered has been kept pure and to a STANDARD if line bred. The germans do this well. But you have to be sure the stock you get is exactly that which it is purchased under. Not just 2nd hand gossip that they are indeed pure.

If you have ever seen some overseas fish farms peacocks are generally bred with the aphism "Would it make the fish sell faster?" rather then "Is this pure" or "Is it conforming to a line bred standard?".

Alot of fish farms will produce a fish that "looks" red and call it "Rubins Red" or "Red flourecent" more likely its whatever Aul. hansbaenchi produces the most red offspring over multiple generations thrown in the fish pen. Even them they wont think twice about purchasing another "red type" Aul. from another farm and throw it in the mix.

There is nothing stopping the wholesaler reselling the same fish and calling red rubin or whatever. As the end retailer will just resell it with the same name.

What do you end up with? Something that looks red and is a peacock.

People will buy it. But to call it a name would be better to call it Aul. "something that looks red"

If you want to breed your peacock go right ahead. Use the EXACT name you bought it as and only breed it with the same fish. Nobody will hold you to a higher moral standard then that of the person you bought it off.

Logically unless your peacock has both a proper subspecies and possible location variant (as described by wildtype) its not ever going to be totally accepted by anyone who knows about peacocks.

Discus have been bred for a long time this way. Pick and choose the fastest and best selling colour type.

[Mbuna]

some more pics of dereks aulonacara. the smaller one imo looks like some sort of cross between an Aulonacara sp. and Metriaclima estherae.

[wetfish]

This pic is of the same fish as above but it shows his colour better. The female is in the bottom left corner.

thanx hazza

[saudukar]

I had never thought of this before but is Metriaclima estherae (the varient where male and female have the same colouration) a naturally occuring lutino?

Or is another line-breed?

Or not lutino but with yellow pigmentation colouring?

[wetfish]

???

[Mbuna]

I had never thought of this before but is Metriaclima estherae (the varient where male and female have the same colouration) a naturally occuring lutino?

yes the 'red' form aka pulu point of metriaclima estherae is line bred. the natural occuring males are blue wheras the pulu point males have an apricot colour as seen here..... pic

[E4G13M4N]

After looking at the pics im more inclined that they are Pulu Point crossed with Aulonocara ?? As they do not look like anything ive seen that has been line bred in the peacock strains ..

[Nigel]

I have been watching this debate and i can tell you that thay came in a shipment from Germany. As to what thay are i dont know but i did have some photos of the parents but when my computer crashed thay were lost. The one to ask about there origin is the company in Germany that supplied them and that is Airfish. If you wont to get in contact with them there is a link in the home page.

[Mbuna]

look what i came across on the net....Aulonacara sp. gold

i think this is your fish. it seems to be a line bred aulonacara.

[saudukar]

I dont want to sound pretentous and sceptical. But what assurences do you ever get that peacocks are line bred from start to finish?

The picture of the Aul. sp "gold" is mightly impressive fish no doubt.

But because of our isolation and market demand I always am a little suspicous when a brand spanking new line bred fish comes available.

I am under no illusion that the best line bred specimens come from Germany and that anything from reputable breeders is probably the real deal. (ie locality variant from lake bred to the pinnacle of colour saturation).

But arent these fish normally exorbantantly costly and dead rare? Wouldn't the consumer buying them want to verify the quality and the original location and subspecies varient for the cost?

Ive seen alot of overseas fish farm price lists and peacocks are one of the "lets make a cool trade name for any peacock that looks good" (i.e Aul. sp "brillant blue" Aul. sp "royal blue" Aul. sp "ruby" and so on).

Im not here to questions anyones honesty or cast aspersions, but peacocks are one of those breds that are always questionable. If someone brings in a new line bred varient then you always have the right to use the advertised wholesalers/retailers name for the fish because no-one should have to justify the purchase beyond that point. Assuming no guess taking has been done along the purchase chain.

But you should however use logical common sense to how you keep that fish beyond that point. If partners are hard to come by then dont choose regular peacocks as house mates and make sure you only stock that type of line bred varient for your tank.

No consumer should have to justify the location/subspecies/line-bred name of thier fish because the seller has a responsibility to keep the trade/species name the same as the advertised name to them.

[Auscanuckafishy]

G'day,

What you have there is not unsimilar to an OB peacock, only you have the O variety. Have a look at a few O type mbuna and you'll get the idea.

Linebred? Personally I don't think so, but who knows eh..... Going by the shape I would say it is a nice example of an mbuna cross bred back to peacocks over several generations, but obviously not enough generations as the mbuna shape is still prevalent somewhat. See on an OB peacock the peacock shape has been returned completely because the process of backcrossing was taken over a more suitable period of time (anyone who thinks OB peacocks are legitimate can totally ignore this if they want).

Mark