probiotics?

[friendlyburger]

I was at a LFS today that I haven't been to for a while and the bloke there was telling about some probiotics (sorry didn't get the name) that they put into there tanks to help with filtration and eliminate levels of nitrates. He said it cut down the amount of cleaning required due to the accelerated level of waste breaking down and being dispersed as gas. He also said that his fish are more colourful due to the water quality (fish did look healthy and happy). It cost about $23 per 100ml and only needed to be used @ the rate of 1 ml per 100ltrs per week (so its cheap enough). I was in a rush and couldn't hang around to investigate, so does anyone out there know about this and whether it actually works? (I'm all up for reducing my work load but not at the expense of my fishes health)

The problem I actually have is Algae - furry dirty looking stuff.

The conversation started with me telling him how I'm getting a fair bit of algae in the tank (on glass, rocks & fake plants) & reckons high nitrate levels can cause this - hench the above speil.

I have changed my globes and they only run for 6 hrs a day so thats not the problem.

The tank (6x2x2) is heavily stocked, with large Haps mainly (all fish are hapy and healthy with yellows and rusties always breeding), and I run a sump with bio balls then matrix before the return pump (5000lph I think). I do weekly water change of roughly 30% which cleans the tank up but by day 4 or 5 its looking dirty again with algae regrowing on the glass. I haven't tested for nitrites,nitrates etc as I don't have a kit (I know this would be a smart thing to do) but I thought I would just throw it out there to see if anyone had any suggestions on why this is happening and how I could fix it. Is this probiotic the answer or was he just after my $23?

Cheers jake

Cheers Jake

[noxious_nasties]

I was under the impression that phosphate is the main cause of algae, but

high nitrate tanks lead to/tend to have increased phosphate? Could be wrong

on that though.

Never heard of probiotics to reduce nitrates either... changing things round

chemically is what its suppose to be doing as I can't think of another way for

nitrate to be reduced unless its spiking the denitrification bacteria?

A quick search on the net pulled up this > "Pro-Bac"

Probiotic Bacteria – Selected Beneficial bacteria that have positive effects on water quality,

assimilate waste, attack disease, reduce disease by competitive exclusion, improve immune

resistance, improve digestion and body functions.

Pro Bac is a mix of 27 different strains of heterotrophic pro-biotic bacteria. Probiotic Bacteria

improve the quality of your water by digesting solid and dissolved waste in your aquarium. When added on a weekly basis Neo Pro Bac will:

- Reduce BOD & COD (biological/biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) and Chemical Oxygen

Demand (COD), this is the oxygen demand that waste, either organic, inorganic, solid or

dissolved, puts on the system if not digested and removed. I.e. polluted waters have much

higher BOD/COD than clean water)

- Reduce algae by removing nutrients that algae thrive on

- Digest oils and grease (often seen as oil slicks that form on the top of the water, this can

be caused by a number of factors including using food with high fat and lipid content)

- Digest phosphate and phosphorus

- Performs heterotrophic nitrification and de-nitrification, not to be confused with Autotrophic

nitrification carried out by bacteria that are in products such as Bio-culture.

- Digests bottom sediment, sludge, uneaten food and fish waste

- Reduces disease causing bacteria through competitive exclusion*

Highly concentrated, Pro Bac contains over 1 billion cells of bacteria per ml that, once added

to your aquarium will start to assimilate waste and clean your aquarium biologically, the way

nature intended.

Because the heterotrophic bacteria in Pro Bac are so efficient at their job, waste products from

uneaten fish food, fish waste, dead plants, algae and sediment/sludge, are broken down very

quickly and the population of bacteria soon diminish as the food source for them depletes.

Adding Pro Bac every 7 days ensures that you maintain a healthy population of probiotic

bacteria in your aquarium or pond. Neo Pro Bac can be used in both fresh and salt water

and can be used in conjunction with Active Bac and Pro-Bio-Plus for added waste assimilation

and disease control. For faster Aquarium start-up, Neo Pro Bac can be used in conjunction with

Bio-Culture, a mix of True, Nitrifying Autotrophic bacteria found to be the most dominant strains

of nitrifying bacteria found in Aquaria.

Notes on Competitive Exclusion

A new concept in disease control is a process called competitive exclusion. By using Pro-Biotic

bacteria you achieve two things that reduce disease:

1. the environment is improved dramatically, resulting in much better water quality, much more

stable water quality and an environment free of waste that does not harbour disease causing

organisms, this by itself has a preventative effect by making the environment a very hospitable

place for Aquatic organisms such as fish to live, but a very inhospitable place for disease causing

organisms to live.

By improving water quality you also improve the fish’s immune system as there are not as many

stressors on the fish and they are much healthier overall.

2. COMPETETIVE EXCLUSION - this is the main result that Pro-Bac achieves in relation to disease

control, essentially competitive exclusion is the process of building up populations of beneficial

organisms (pro-biotic bacteria) therefore outcompeting disease causing organisms for space and

food. By regularly dosing Pro-Biotic bacteria such as Pro-Bac you keep the levels of beneficial

bacteria in your water high and therefore reduce the food source and space that disease causing

bacteria has available to exist in your water, therefore the percentage of disease causing organisms

in the water is low and your fish have much less chance of contracting them.

[Rod54]

Pro-BAC now sold under the name Bio-Aid due to a product produced for sewerage treatment of the same name

I use it....with success

[friendlyburger]

cheers for the reply's. Interesting read noxious_naties, it sounds a like this stuff may cut down on tank maintance but increase the quailty of the environment for the fish. That's a win/win situation. I will do a bit of net search over the weekend.

Rod 54 - what success did you have? Is it cleaner tank & less maintance? (please tell me this is a yes & yes answer) If so how often do you water changes & gravel/glass clean? (gravel and glass clean is what I hate as it takes heaps longer to do with having to take hood off etc, where as a simple w/c is hose in /hose out job done in 10 mins)

[Rod54]

I must say I like the concept of a probiotic....

it fits my ethos for fishkeeping

Less waste in filters.....

I still do weekly water changes.....and need to clean the glass(but I only clean front glass)

I don't gravel vac(hard to do in planted or shellie tanks!)

I have simple filtration on all my tanks(air driven sponges)

MTS in all tanks

plants in all tanks....water sprite,duckweed,java fern,java moss,anubias

Lucky bamboo

30% weekly water changes

Bio-Aid at each water change

NLS food as a basic +Live food to assist conditioning for breeding or raising fry

Works for me...

[friendlyburger]

Rod 54 - how much less waste in filter eg 10%, 25%, 50% or is it to hard to judge? Do you clean the sponge less often or with each water change?

I think I will give it ago - how much do you pay and where do you get it (LFS or net?)

Cheers Jake