6x2x2 - Setup Questions

[Willo]

Hey Guys - I'm new to the fold, and have recently purchased a 6x2x2 tank. It's a massive upgrade for me, going from an aqua-one style tank, which has filtration, lighting all sorted, to a setup which I have to make decisions. This is hopefully where you guys can help me

My tank has a weir, with a little hole in the bottom (I think you call it the sump?), and the tank came with a mini-reef system and pump (probably not of high quality, but it does pump 3500lph).

Now with the questions:

Heater: I've read throughout these forums that people are placing heaters within the mini-reef? Have I read that correctly? If so, is there benefit in doing this rather than within the tank itself (other than aesthetics)? I have just bought two 300w stainless steel heaters.

Durso: I noticed a few of you have put durso things in (I only learnt about these things on these forums). Can anyone simply explain the benefit of such a thing? I gather it's to reduce noise, but seeing as how i've no water in my tank yet, i've not experienced the noise. I couldn't understand how the durso worked, as it looked like the pipe went down to the sump, with a sponge filter coming off half-way down the piping. Weird?

Returning the water back to teh tank from mini-reef. What's the best way to return the water to the tank? At the moment, simply the pipe returns to the top of the tank with a little elbow joint and just sits on top... is it better to add some piping, maybe with some holes in it so the new water is distributed more evenly throughout the tank?

Thanks for your time peoples... I am interstate at the moment, but will get a photo up when i return.

Cheers,

Tony

[L127]

mini reef = sump same same.. as for the heater in the sump.. it heats all the water that way rather then having a dead spot where you have your heater i guess you'd say an even heating area in the sump.. also looks much better on the eye when it isnt in the tank..

[rosco]

I am installing a durso stand pipe mainly because of noise reduction when I increase the throughput of the water through the tank. I am sure that I will be corrected, if I am wrong, as I am only new to this as well, but it my understanding that it effectively breaks the vacuum caused by draining water sound. You know the sound your bath causes when the plug is released. I think that it also can help to reduce the waterfall sound that can be heard if you have holes through the stand pipe so the water falls a certain amount of distance before draining out. Another way I have been told to reduce the sound is to put 2 45 degree angled elbows instead of one 90 degree one to make it less of a splash as is turns the corner.

Is that it is my understanding that with a durso stand pipe you should have a smaller inlet than an outlet, due to a durso being gravity feed not pumped out. For example I will draining the tank with 32mm piping (I could not easlly manage to get a bigger hole drilled in the tank) but the inlet will be either 20mm or 25 mm depending on the pipe oulet. Your pump (good or bad) will cause a fair flow through the tank (even though you will lose some throughput due to head height) so you would have to consider this before install one.

If you have the same inlet and outlet you can still get around but reducing the flow into the tank by adding a circuit after the pump to flow back into the sump as long as you have a inline valve.

Anyhow you have come to right spot to learn about this there are really knowledgable guys and girls on this forum and we are all still learning

cheers

rosco

[Willo]

Thanks for the info... I guess the stainless steel heaters weren't so necesseary if I can put them in the sump... good to know.

The durso still confuses me abit, so what I might do is put water into the tank, and see how it all flows (being new to the mini-reef, it would be a good start seeing it run). If the sound through the weir is annoying, I'll investigate the durso stand pipe further.

Thanks again for the help - it's reassuring to know there are people out there with more knowledge than me

EDIT: AHHHH, it just clicked... i found this link http://www.rl180reef.com/180/pages/standpipe/construct.htm (on these forums), and it clears it all up for me... I think... The only part i don't understand, is you would still get a trickling noise when the water drops to the weir, but i guess it's not as loud as it has less distance to travel. Would this statement sound correct?

[rosco]

The only part i don't understand, is you would still get a trickling noise when the water drops to the weir, but i guess it's not as loud as it has less distance to travel. Would this statement sound correct?

It is noisy, in fact it can sound like the surfs up. So if you want to reduce that noise silcone a piece of glass into the sump about 10cm in from the edge from the base to say 5-6cm from the top, so that chamber fills up and the water overflows on a driptray, then through the bio ball chamber and out through the sump back into the tank. I plan to add an extra 2 chambers after the bio ball where I can add 2 litres of pond matrix for good measure.

cheers

rosco

[Willo]

The only part i don't understand, is you would still get a trickling noise when the water drops to the weir, but i guess it's not as loud as it has less distance to travel. Would this statement sound correct?

It is noisy, in fact it can sound like the surfs up. So if you want to reduce that noise silcone a piece of glass into the sump about 10cm in from the edge from the base to say 5-6cm from the top, so that chamber fills up and the water overflows on a driptray, then through the bio ball chamber and out through the sump back into the tank. I plan to add an extra 2 chambers after the bio ball where I can add 2 litres of pond matrix for good measure.

cheers

rosco

Thanks Rosco - sounds like i might need to wait till i hear it myself before i make a decision. I do like the sound of the surf, but might get frustrating when i'm trying to sleep.

Can anyone tell me how feasible/beneficial the idea of me putting piping around hte base of my tank, about 10cm's from the edgees, 1/2 inch thick with holes drilled throughout (more towards the underside of the pipe than facing up to prevent sand getting into the holes) which will be connected to a powerhead. The idea being my substrate is placed ontop of the piping, and the water flowing from the pipes under the substrate will help water circulation, and possible prevent those gas pockets I've heard about with sand.

Also, I'm about to start making my durso, can anyone tell me where i might be able to get a prefilter sponge thing to go on the end of the durso t-piece? I've no idea what i need to ask for at the fish shop...

Thanks for your help guys - i'm actually going to take photos of the progress, and am about to show you a picture of my tank, after i laquered it.

[Bruce]

At the shop ask for a prefilter, I believe Aquaone make one. It is a square shaped blue sponge with a hole in to put a pipe in. Ask for a prefilter sponge.

Bruce

[Willo]

At the shop ask for a prefilter, I believe Aquaone make one. It is a square shaped blue sponge with a hole in to put a pipe in. Ask for a prefilter sponge.

Bruce

Is this product what I'm after http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod465.htm ? I thought it was, however now 'guess' that it might be for pumping water through, rather than sucking it out - if that makes any sense?. (I hope you all appreciate my technical jargon)

Excuse the poor photography, but here is my tank...

And this is the mini-reef which came with teh tank... not setup yet.

I'll try and put some more up as I make the durso stand and then the piping below the substrate (if i do it).

[Willo]

Can anyone tell me how feasible/beneficial the idea of me putting piping around hte base of my tank, about 10cm's from the edgees, 1/2 inch thick with holes drilled throughout (more towards the underside of the pipe than facing up to prevent sand getting into the holes) which will be connected to a powerhead. The idea being my substrate is placed ontop of the piping, and the water flowing from the pipes under the substrate will help water circulation, and possible prevent those gas pockets I've heard about with sand.

Sorry to be annoying, but i'm looking to go out and buy a few lengths of pipe today/tomorrow and purchase a powerhead. I was thinking something around the 2000lph range. Anyway, does the above idea sound feasible to you guys? Don't want to be doing something that is not gonna help my tank

Thanks again.

[Willo]

I'm looking at putting together my durso but just need some clarification. Can anyone confirm if it's ok to use the blue glue for the pvc pipes? Not sure if it'll affect the water quality.

Thanks in advance,

Tony

[huzzy]

I'm looking at putting together my durso but just need some clarification. Can anyone confirm if it's ok to use the blue glue for the pvc pipes? Not sure if it'll affect the water quality.

Thanks in advance,

Tony

Hi Tony,

The blue glue is fine to use, just make sure you leave it to dry for a minimum of 24 hours before adding water. however, on a side note i would not use the blue glue at all if you can avoid it. My durso does not have any glue and its a blessing to be able to dissasemble one part to get it in or out, or just to clean a specific component.

Good luck with it mate.

[Willo]

Great, thanks Huzzy. I'll take your advice, and refrain from using any glue at all.

[Willo]

What a weekend!! Boy, do I have some questions for you folk

I added water to my tank this weekend, and have generated numerous questions.

1) I've come to the conclusion that my 3500lpm (cheap chinese pump) returns the water to my tank much faster than my durso stand/bulkhead. I don't see this as a problem, however it does seem to return air along with the through the return pipe.

2) The durso seems really quiet, however, i get the gurgling noise in the pipe running from the bulkhead to the spinning arm... so much so, it's not really bareable... can anyone offer any suggestions? I've tried moving the mini-reef so the pipe is more horizontal, but think i might be looking at the wrong problem.

3) Is it bad to have the water level so that the water doesn't trickle down into the weir? At the moment my water level is such that the water height is above the weir (below the total tank size obviously). I think the problem is probably my durso - any suggestions in improving this throughput?

Hope this helps guys. It was such an exciting weekend finally putting water in, and testing the durso.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and considerations

PS. Thanks to firemouthmike for helping me clean gravel, and shift 600odd litres of water by 15l bucket

[Dreamwater]

Does it work fine if you remove the durso?

What size pvc did you use for the durso?

Did you allow for a breather hole on the top of the durso? because if you dont it wont allow the water to drain correctly...

You have to have the size of the hole right to work correctly, not enough air will cause the water level to raise above the durso...

I found drilling a hole large enough to silicon in one of those inline air flow adjuster pieces then simply turn the adjuster screw until the right amount of air was achieved....

Another cause (which was the main problem I had with mine) is that the flow at the sump was not enough to handle the input into the tank...it was the spinner arm that was the culprit, which was too small...I ended up upsizing the spinner arm to next size up and a 4 arm, but you could try enlarging the holes in your current spinner arm first (didnt work for me though)...and by your pics it looks like you are only using the same small 2 arm spinner which I had originally..

(looks like you got the tank from the same place )

Jason

[Willo]

Does it work fine if you remove the durso?

What size pvc did you use for the durso?

Did you allow for a breather hole on the top of the durso? because if you dont it wont allow the water to drain correctly...

You have to have the size of the hole right to work correctly, not enough air will cause the water level to raise above the durso...

I found drilling a hole large enough to silicon in one of those inline air flow adjuster pieces then simply turn the adjuster screw until the right amount of air was achieved....

Another cause (which was the main problem I had with mine) is that the flow at the sump was not enough to handle the input into the tank...it was the spinner arm that was the culprit, which was too small...I ended up upsizing the spinner arm to next size up and a 4 arm, but you could try enlarging the holes in your current spinner arm first (didnt work for me though)...and by your pics it looks like you are only using the same small 2 arm spinner which I had originally..

(looks like you got the tank from the same place )

Jason

Thanks Dreamwater,

I have the same issue with or without the durso - i'll leave it off for the time being. Without the durso, the water level in the weir is abit above half of the weir height (which is better than all the way to the top! like i had with the durso). I did allow for a breather hole in the durso, and ended up adding another 5, but no change to the result.

I think you may have picked a winner with the spinner arm not being sufficient. I had a look at it tonight, and it's pumping alot of water out, and it appears it's trying to push so much through that it's leaking out the top. So, rather than trying what you've already tried, where does one go to find an appropriate 4 pronged spinning arm?

Thanks again,

Tony

[womsv8]

I have the same setup, i turfed the supplied pump and used one i already had. Have had no flow problems since. I got lots of noise though.

[Dreamwater]

You could try where you got the tank from, though if it is the same wholesaler as I got mine through dont hold your breath...try an lfs, or decent plumbers supply, or even another aquarium wholesaler...though they are NOT cheap...

You could put up a WTB in the classifieds....some decent members around that might be able to sell you a second hander.....

Jason

[Colfish]

hi Tony

5 holes in the durso??

absolutley no good at all. it is letting toooo much air through and restricting the water flow.

you only need a tiny hole, maybe tooth pick size. adjust the hole size so that the water in the weir runs about halfway on the 'T' peice at the top of the 'durso',

why the need for a powerhead and all the xtra piping??

beware of the sponge pre filter, it's a good idea. but there maybe not enough room in the weir for it.

i ran up against that problem. just add a peice of pipe about 25cm long that is perforated with holes from the 'T' peice down into the weir, wrap a peice of filter wool around the pipe, held in place with a rubber band, and you'll have the best pre filter that money will buy.

if the spinner arm is not handling the flow from the pump, you can restict the output from the pump by the use of a tap or smaller piping, but this will put a backload on the pump and make it noisy.

you may need a 4 arm spinner to handle the volume, but let's get the 'durso' working first.

leave the spinner off untill you sort out the flow

let's see what happens!

cheers; Colin

[Dreamwater]

I did forget to ask....what size pvc did you use for the durso?

[Willo]

Thanks for your replies - let's see if i can answer them

hi Tony

5 holes in the durso??

absolutley no good at all. it is letting toooo much air through and restricting the water flow.

you only need a tiny hole, maybe tooth pick size. adjust the hole size so that the water in the weir runs about halfway on the 'T' peice at the top of the 'durso',

I started with one little hole... didn't seem to be working, so went from there. Good to know though, i'll grab the silicon

why the need for a powerhead and all the xtra piping??

That's kinda another project i've got going, designed to airate and stimulate movement at substrate level. All the piping will be below gravel, but that's all at the back of my mind at the moment.

beware of the sponge pre filter, it's a good idea. but there maybe not enough room in the weir for it.

i ran up against that problem. just add a peice of pipe about 25cm long that is perforated with holes from the 'T' peice down into the weir, wrap a peice of filter wool around the pipe, held in place with a rubber band, and you'll have the best pre filter that money will buy.

Yeah, I've not even tried the pre-filter yet. I did see a sponge in a shop the other day that'll do the trick - but who knows, maybe i didn't need a durso in the first place?

if the spinner arm is not handling the flow from the pump, you can restict the output from the pump by the use of a tap or smaller piping, but this will put a backload on the pump and make it noisy.

you may need a 4 arm spinner to handle the volume, but let's get the 'durso' working first.

leave the spinner off untill you sort out the flow

Good idea - i'll rip the spinner off (that'll also tell me if that's the problem with flow).

I did forget to ask....what size pvc did you use for the durso?

Well, the bulkhead takes 20mm pipe, and i've got that going to a 25mm pipe. I don't know if i explained it before, but the weir pretty much overflows because the durso can't take the flow quick enough. I took the durso out, and the weir was then abit above half full, and it all looked pretty good. I'll try removing the spinning arm and see if that's the root of all evil.

Thanks again for all your help peoples!

Tony

[Willo]

Ok - i've done a few things this morning. Hopefully the pictures attached will help explain. I learnt a few things, but still have no idea where my problem might be. Perhaps it's no problem?

Firstly, I'll show you my tank, without the durso, as you'll see water level in the weir is about half, which generates abit of noise. Furthermore, the pump is returning water and air, as it's pumping water from the sump faster than it can get it...

Now here is a picture of the weir without the durso:

Now for a picture of the whole tank with the durso in.

For a closer inspection at the weir - note the height of the water above the T piece.

Note, I did all the above photos without the spinning arm on from the weir to the sump - total throughput wihthout any obstructions.

In conclusion, my guess is i just need to restrict flow from the sump to the tank, which kinda sucks, cos i'm all for flow.

Edit: Excuse my poor photographs - i borrowed a nice camera, but don't know how to use it...

[Dreamwater]

What size is written on the side of the pvc you have used?

It looks like it is only 25mm high pressure (series 1)...which if it is I found that to be too small...I used the 32mm high pressure (series 1) then a reducer down to the 25mm. The T-piece and bend will need to be trimmed down in oprder to fit inside the weir though....and because it did not leave much to twist together, I used the blue glue for those pieces just to make sure.

And I am not sure why air is being blown back through the return from the sump...could be the water level is not high enough in the sump which is causing the pump to suck air....?

*edit- I meant to add, it may say 25mm on the side of the pvc but if you measure across the entir pipe it is more like 35mm and the 32mm is more like 42mm across

[Willo]

What size is written on the side of the pvc you have used?

It looks like it is only 25mm high pressure (series 1)...which if it is I found that to be too small...I used the 32mm high pressure (series 1) then a reducer down to the 25mm. The T-piece and bend will need to be trimmed down in oprder to fit inside the weir though....and because it did not leave much to twist together, I used the blue glue for those pieces just to make sure.

And I am not sure why air is being blown back through the return from the sump...could be the water level is not high enough in the sump which is causing the pump to suck air....?

Yeah, it is 25mm. I've got it going from 20 --> 25 with a reducer, and everything is pressure. Is it worth going 20 --> 32? The bulkhead takes a 20, so i thought one step up was sufficient. I live with plumbers, so equipment is no problems.

As for the sump blowing air, if i turn the pump off, and let the sump fill up it doesn't blow air, but as the water level decreases, it starts blowing the air. I either need to increase flow from weir, or decrease pump speed.

[Colfish]

hi Tony

have got the durso running at the right level yet?

what size pipe are you using from the bulkhead to the sump?

and from the pump to the tank?

to assertain how much water you need in the sump;

turn the pump off, let everything level out. fill the sump to a safe high level [if the power goes off, this is as high as you want the level rise without overflowing] and have the water in the tank level with the top of the weir.

restart the pump and watch the water level in the tank. [if it increases, there is a restriction between the bulkhead and the sump.]

then adjust the durso to run at the correct level. they can be a bit fidly to adjust, but have no regrets, you will be impressed when it's running sweet

it will work

[Dreamwater]

I went to the 32mm and is working like a dream...and as we have worked out the tank is pretty much a duplicate of what I got through the same mob... and as I mentioned in an earlier post, instead of just drilling holes willy nilly to try and get it right, I drilled one hole in the very top of the end cap and then siliconed in one of those inline air screw adjusters, and open or close it until it was spot on, allows for fine tuning lol...

I also changed the 19mm 2 arm spinner to the 25mm 4 arm spinner as that was causing major headaches as well due to flow restriction...

As soon as I done the above all works a charm now....well except for the vortex sound it creates in the join at the spinner arm, but that is due to my laziness of not upsizing the ribbed hose from the bulkhead to the spinner connection...I opted to just add a 32mm to 25mm reducer on the spiner connection...but will swap that to the bulkhead end and enlarge the current ribbed hose...should sort out that last niggly little prob.

I will try and get some pics of it all by the weekend for you....to help explain what I am trying to say lol

Cheers

Jason