Dreamwater Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi all, Just thought I would introduce myself being a new member to the site and pretty much to cichlids as well.... Had quite a few tanks over the years ranging from tropical to marine, but has been a long pause between them (read - years!), and just starting back into it. Currently only have a 65l tank with one pair of red forst jewels, a couple of bristle noses, and a couple of otos, had the jewels in the tank from the LFS about 2 hours and the female has already laid eggs! (is this normal or just a fluke?) The 65L tank was originally set up for the kids, but that gave me the bug back very easily, so I am currently in the process of a better setup with a 6ft tank... Which brings me to my dilemma... I was looking at making it painless as possible and going for an Aquaone Aqua Grande 180 (6') and adding a decent cannister filter as well....nice looking aquariums and I like the idea of trickle filter etc built into the hood and out of the way, also saves me the hair pulling of getting up to speed with whats new etc. Not sure of the good/bad points of these, but I do know will end up costing around 2k with cabinet! and thats before adding things like a cannister and internals! Or would it be a wiser decision to set up my own? It has been quite a while since I have done this, so atm finding it ovewhelming and feel very much like a total newb So welcoming any assistance, open to suggestions, recomendations, hints, and eye openers! Oh and heres a pic of mum taken just after laying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Welcome back to the hobby! And good to see your Red Jewels are into it already. I'm sure there's plenty of us that have left the hobby but came back. I have a young family at home so I personally go thru peaks and troughs regards enthusiasm for fish keeping - some periods I'm right into it, and other periods I'm lucky to do a water change every 3 weeks. I don't have a fishroom for this reason, just 3 tanks all up - a display, a breeder for one species and a fry tank. I also keep Lake Malawi Africans as they're relatively low maintenance and still happily chug along during those low enthusiasm periods. However what you may need to do first I think is decide, and let us know, what your goals are. First up, what type of tank do you want - a display I'm assuming but what genre of fish, how many, do you intend them to breed in there also. Also consider what setup do you want in regards maintenance. So for those periods you're busy in life or just lose a bit of interest, you don't have a demanding fishkeeping regime to still follow. On the other hand you may want a demanding fishkeeping regime to keep you busy. But once we know what you're aiming for, people can better help with advice. I work on two basic rules regards filtering and how many fish: 4Litres of water per 1" of fish, and sufficient filteration to turnover your tank's volume 3-4 times an hour. Also need to consider a suffient volume of bio media in your filters. External canisters are probably the most popular filter in the hobby at present (in Australia anyway). They're low maintenance depending on your tank's load (usually need cleaning once every 4-6 months) , they provide good mechanical and biological filtration, and they're non-evasive visually in the aquarium as they're tucked away underneath. One is usually excellent filtration for a 3ft to 4ft aquarium but on some bigger tanks 5ft and over most people go two canisters. Overhead trickle filters are all the rage in Asia I've heard and they seem a good set up. You can use all the different filter media for both mechanical and bio filtering and they seem to have a large capacity. So with a nice large external canister added to your overhead trickle filter, I'd say with caution is probably going to be sufficient, not knowing what you're plans are. One thing you'll find is a lot of aquarium equipment has become much cheaper in the last 5 years thanks to Chinese reverse engineering and mass manufacturing. So the expensive external filters made in Germany of a decade ago are a 1/3 the price for a Chinese copy these days. Same goes with most other accessories from heaters to fish nets. Mind you there can be a compromise in quality for some stuff but it is making it much easier and cheaper to keep a nice aquarium these days. To expand on your tank options, I'm sure there's plenty of people on here to point you in the direction of a good but cheap tank builder. And someone else to point you in the direction of a good but cheap tank cabinet builder. And this forum's sponsors do actually have probably the cheapest prices around for equipment and accessories. I'd have a look at this website for some pointers also: Net Max's Aquaria Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Hi, Don't know about how you intend on getting the setup to Bellingen, but there are aquarium warehouse type places here in Sydney where you can get a 6x2x2 with stand and hood, sump, lighting and decent canister for about $1500. That would be my personal preferred option. I have a R2-120 which is the 4 foot ~285L model Aqua One tank. They are a great tank as well, and the beauty of them is the top wet dry filter is built in and you get triple fluro lights too. I know there was a member on this forum that had the 6 foot model in good condition for under $1000. PM me if you want more details. I don't think it has been sold. A decent canister for that size tank would be a Fluval FX5 or Eheim Pro. You can get them cheap through the sponsors up the top for around $340 (FX5) and Eheim a little bit more. What are you looking at putting in there btw? You could easily have 50+ fish in there!!! Let us know how you go. Cheers Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks for your replies GTR73 and Kilroy At the moment final destination is not fully thought out as yet, it will be mainly a display tank, but no probs with letting them breed (do have the 65L and also an old 280L tank wich can be used for breeding and fry seperation ... I am pretty much settled on an West African set up, starting with the jewels obviously, more research needed but am also keen on keeping Paratilapia buttikoferi, Pelvicachromis subocellatus 'Matadi' and Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'Moliwe'......well thats if they are available. Definately will not be overstocking, I would say atm I dont have any plans for having over 10 - 15 fish, some might say a tank the size I want is overkill, but I have always believed it to be better prepared for the unforeseen...lol I do have a reasonable size green severum which will be going in the tank, which isnt really keeping to theme, but couldnt help myself as fell in love with him... he has previously been in with breeding jewels before and there hasnt been any dramas with them, he was really the only one they didnt harass (probably due to his size).... After a bit of research and choosing I have close to decided on a 6'x2'x2' tank and an Eheim Pro 2228 cannister (will this be enough or will I need to add a powerhead, trickle filter or ?), Stand and possible hood also, coarse sand substrate, and need to research more on plants (the least destroyed lol) havnt chosen the type of lighting as yet...and might even splurge on a nice 3D background! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Mate if you're not overstocking the tank then you can probably get away with a single large capacity canister. For a tank that size, I would have a sump and a canister. I have a 5x2x2 and I run a sump, 2 canisters and in internal filter. I keep tropheus, so I suppose I am a bit over the top. I am turning over the tank about 16 times per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Kilroy, do you happen to have any pics of your setup at all...in particular the plumbing etc? Would be great to get a look at how that is all done.... Cheers Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Kilroy, do you happen to have any pics of your setup at all...in particular the plumbing etc? Would be great to get a look at how that is all done.... Cheers Jason I have two holes in the bottom of the tank. One is in the weir, and on the other side is the water return. The water gravity feeds through the weir into the sump. The pump in the sump pushes the water back into the tank at the other end and up a length of pipe almost 2 feet in length. The way it is set up, if there is a blackout or the pump fails, the water level can't get below the return pipe or the weir, so the sump won't overflow. I have a couple of pics below. Don't worry it is easy. I know virtually nothing about plumbing an aquarium and I managed with just a few elbow pieces and some clamps!!! Sorry for the poor pics. Very dirty sump. Weir Return Pipe Gravity flow from tank to sump onto splash plate above bioballs (pump is off, water not usually that high) Plumbed an elbow in from pump back to return pipe. Couple of clamps onto bottom of return pipe and it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks for that, pretty nicely done! I wasnt considering a tank with weir, or having holes drilled....as I was going to go with just cannister for now, and then further down the track adding a sump, but guess this would then have to be done using 2 pumps, one for return from sump and the other to pump from the tank to the sump.....might be just easier to go for the weir it would seem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks for that, pretty nicely done! I wasnt considering a tank with weir, or having holes drilled....as I was going to go with just cannister for now, and then further down the track adding a sump, but guess this would then have to be done using 2 pumps, one for return from sump and the other to pump from the tank to the sump.....might be just easier to go for the weir it would seem.... You can just use a canister and have the outlet go to the sump if you wanted to go that way. Lots of people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I wasnt considering a tank with weir, or having holes drilled....as I was going to go with just cannister for now, and then further down the track adding a sump, but guess this would then have to be done using 2 pumps, one for return from sump and the other to pump from the tank to the sump.....might be just easier to go for the weir it would seem.... Not a Good idea to pump from tank to the sump.....if you have a problem with the pump from sump to the tank you could pump all the water from your tank...and/or it will pump dry and blow up too. Normally sumps are gravity fed.....pump from sump to tank and overflow back to sump.....best to do a lot of research or have them done professionally. Given your proposed stocking levels I'd go Cannister....2 would be better or 2 weirs(one at each end) would be cheapest or Cannister and a weir....Having 2 filters gives you a backup if one fails and also allows you to clean them alternately ensuring a constant biological filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Cheers Kilroy and Rod, Have sourced an aquarium builder in Sydney, and am now going for a 6x2x2 with weir and complete sump (mini reef) all plumbed inc. pump etc, cabinet and hood, great price too @ under $1500, as a complete package with all I will need to add is lighting, just going to be an additional $250 to get it up to me via removalist, but still works out approx $1k cheaper than having done locally!!! Sump should be ok for a while by itself, then will add a canister to that, possibly 2 if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroy Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Good luck mate, you won't regret having a sump or a 6x2x2. Cheers Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Cheers Shane....thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well it's on it's way, will be here Monday...! I ordered the 6x2x2 with weir and plumbed pretty much the same as Shanes with custome 3' sump, 4 door pine cabinet and hood (would have been nice in hardwood..but $$$$) for $1350 plus freight ($290 delivered to my door from Sydney) For the same set up I had been quoted from $2600 to $3200, so over $1k difference going local! Now I just have to decide if I will go sand or gravel? I dont fancy the white sand, too bright for my liking and not keen on gravel either, was considering something like the Nepean river sand which has been mentioned on this forum as it is a coarse sand with a bit of smaller rock through it....has anyone used this at all? or does anyone have any other recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colfish Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 hi Jason what substarte to use really depends on what fish you plan to stock. i have used a lot of "Nepean" sand. it is p h neutral, so it wont buffer the ph either way. if you plan on fish that require a p h either way of neutral p h you will have to adjust and buffer the p h. a 6x2 bed of this sand would look rather droll, but if you plan on 'scaping' it up with rocks/logs/ plants etc it will come up ok [ecellent for plants] i use it for my shellies, though i prefer a mix of 'sydney' sand and crushed calcium rock [1mm] or coral sand for sand sifters and tropheus. 'Nepean' gravel [1mm] looks ok, is good for plants or fish that 'must' dig holes and move it around [malawi's] though marketed as 'washed' neither of these products are ready to add directly to the tank, they all need to be washed clean. if you know someone 'up river, in the hills' why not have a look around in the local creek beds for resources just a thought. cheers; Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks Colin, While I am an ex-St Marys lad myself, I am now up Bellingen way (Coffs Harbour) so it is a bit of a hike now lol.... I will be scaping with rock, wood and a few minimal chosen plants... I really like what Tunnel Rat has done in "this thread" so am thinking along those lines....just a pity those backgrounds are so expensive especially to do a six footer and needing that extra bit of length to surround the weir (they only have 6' or the next up is 12', so needing that extra few inches would require approx 6'6), though they look fantastic! Just need to keep looking at members setups and finding that right looking substrate for the way I want to go.... Thanks for the info though, gives me something else to think of Cheers Jason *edit* At the moment I have a breeding pair of Jewels (Hemchromis lifalili) that have recently spawned (wrigglers atm but should be free swimming in the next day or two!), a 4.5" Green Severum, a couple of BN's and a couple of Ottos...so it is currently a bit undecided if I will go African or Sth American.....and depending which way I go I will then have to work on the odd ones out being to match either the severum or the jewels....a bit confusing I know lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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