Ash Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Hey peoples, Craig's (Cthompson) denitrate filters have inspired me. Now it's easy as to add them onto my sump systems, but for the tanks filtered by HOBs it isn't as easy. Note: You have to have a max of ~200lph for denitrate to go anaerobic. I believe most cannisters are rated empty, is that correct? If I fit a tap inline to the outlet & restrict flow, will it wear out the motor faster? I was wondering what the flow rate of a CF-1000 drops too when it's loaded? Another alternative would be a Sacem Marathon 300 350lph cannister, anyone know what they actually flow? Cheers & Beers Ash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I too have been interested by Craig's de-nitrator, I am keen to see where this goes and what you end up with... Cheers Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I bought 2 second hand fluval 103 as a test. The are rated at 400lph but I'm sure they don't get anywhere near that. I remember someone saying if you restrict the flow on the input you put less pressure on the pump.....is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 pressure on the outlet is like extra head height, I'd have thought it would be safer than pressure on the inlet? Isn't the inlet like a siphon so if you restrict it there it could potentially run the pump dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Do you guys have a link to the project so I can see what you're talking about? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 That's not a tank (pg3) On the first page there's a pic of a piece of PVC pipe - with a sump you just put some return water through the denitrator & get the flow rate nice & low - I'm trying to get itty bitty canisters for non-sump tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 There's something about port holes in a tank that make it seem very submarine like, I think it's great! Ash, are you planning on running the entire output flow through the denitrater? I wouldn't worry about running the pump dry if you restrict the flow into the canister. There is no way that the pump could be displacing water for air in a sealed canister, unless you have a leak somewhere in the system. For that reason I would make sure that the canister you use has a good seal, I vaguely remember someone posting something about the Pro Aqua seals not being too good (water spilling when the canister was on it's side - I'll test and let you know). What media are you thinking of using? There are so many out there that claim to be good for nitrate removal... I found this description of Seachem de*nitrate: de*nitrate™ removes nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, & organics from both fresh & marine water. Even when exhausted as an organic absorbent, de*nitrate continues to be an excellent support for the biological filter & does not have to be removed This for JBL Micromec: Ammonium and nitrite are efficiently broken down in the outer layers, whilst the optimum conditions for the bacterial breakdown of nitrate are created in the inner section. The optimum bulk density is extremely effective even in small filters. And this for Seachem Matrix: Seachem Matrix™ is a highly porous media designed to provide exceptionally efficient biofiltration for single site removal of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate from fresh & saltwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 probably just de*nitrate, maybe some Matrix to make up the volume (depending on price difference vs volume, maybe pond matrix even?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The prices I have seen are very comparable between de*nitrate and Matrix. I was just browsing the Seachem FAQs to see if there was any difference between Matrix and Pond Matrix (which I couldn't) and came across this: Q: If I’m using Matrix™do I need to use de*nitrate™as well? A: That depends on a number of things. If Matrix™is doing the job for you (i.e. keeping nitrite/nitrate under control) then, no. If you’re running a flow rate higher than 50 gallons/hour, then you won’t be able to use de*nitrate™anyway since it requires a flow rate slower than that to support the denitrifying bacteria. If filter size and capacity are an issue, then de*nitrate™will provide a more efficient removal of nitrate per volume of product (i.e. you can use less de*nitrate™by volume than Matrix™to get the same denitrifying capacity). Also, de*nitrate™has the capacity to remove nitrates by chemical absorption on initial use of the product, although if nitrate levels are very high (above 20 mg/L) we recommend a water change as the most economical approach to getting your nitrate level down before putting these products into service. On the leaking filters, the CF-1200 doesn't appear to have a problem. But i've found they need a damn good cleaning coming out the box, my finger tips were black after playing around with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 Ash, are you planning on running the entire output flow through the denitrater? Forgot to answer this one! I'm only planning on running 150-200lph through it to get the use out of de*nitrate - hence wanting to restrict the canister in a non-harmful way. Pond Matrix is the same stuff, just larger. I figured that would mean more "internal" area so therefore more denitrification (anerobic). What do you mean by "black" - I thought lube grease on pumps was white? What exactly was filthy on the new canister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 What do you mean by "black" - I thought lube grease on pumps was white? What exactly was filthy on the new canister? ← It wasn't the lube, it was some residue on the internal walls of the canister. I think it's just some manufacturing dust but means it will need a better than good clean. I previously only remember having to do a light clean to a new canister, but this will require a lot more effort. I has been a few years since I last got one though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyclops Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Ok. I like the idea of this thing. Here my idea. 100mm/90mm PVC pipe. 15-20cm long. Filled with de*nitrate and capped (non-threaded: if i'm going to get to this thing i'll cohp it in half). Tapped intake at the top, return at the bottom. Sits above sump (pre-filtered-clean water). Buy a cheap pump (ie. bunnings ones ~250l/hr) and run water through that? What do you think? It's going to be running on 8X 2*1*1 fry/growouts (4*2*2 volume equivalent) with a sump. Flow rate too low/high, volume of de*nitrate too little? Cheers Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 from memory you only need a litre per 1000l, so I'd say that volume would be great. Flow rate is a bit too high, though head height could solve that drama. on my sump systems I plan to do pretty much exactly that, it's the non-sump ones where I want to try using a cannister rather than have powerheads in the tanks to feed home made cannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Bumpity bump so, no more input on what the flow rate of the mentioned cannisters drops to once loaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Not for the ones you mentioned although I will conduct a test on the Fluval 103 tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ash, have you made any progress on this project? I have been going through the cycle and have actually found that my nitrates are dropping without any special treatment from me. There have been no water changes since filling on 20/05 and daily tank feedings, ammonia and nitrite spikes have come and gone and then the nitrate started going down. I'm confused as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 what media do you have in your cannisters? matrix for instance can denitrify to a degree, I'm sure other sintered glass type media can too. edit: to answer your actual question - I haven't done jack with this yet bought a home brew kit on ebay for $10 & have been fiddling with it instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I'm using JBL Micromec, which is supposed to have qualities that all the various bacteria colonies like, but I wasn't expecting it to have quite as much an impact as it has. Level have gone from 10-20ppm down to 0-5ppm in only a day or so... Good luck with the home brew, I've heard it can be an art getting it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 I've pretty much nailed it first go. got a kilkenny clone almost ready to bottle & even straight out of the hydrometer tube she tastes pretty darn good. back on topic.... what's your stocking/feeding rates? I know you have like 3 filters in there, yeah? two about 1000lph & one about 300lph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Stock rates are zero at the moment, only just at the end of the cycle. I would guess i've been adding about 1/2 - 1 teaspoon of food a day. 3 filters, yes: Eheim 2217 - 1000L/hr - mechanical with a little bio Eheim 2213 - 440L/hr - mechanical with a little little bio Pro Aqua 1200 - 1200L/hr - mostly bio (3L of the Micromec) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Will you be feeding that volume of food when you do introduce the fish? looks like you're on a real winner with this setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Will you be feeding that volume of food when you do introduce the fish? looks like you're on a real winner with this setup ← I would guess that it wouldn't be quite so much, at least initially, as they will only be small when I get them. As they grow it will obviously increase though. I'm pretty happy with the setup so far, the cycle has taken a lot less time that I had expected and the filteration is obviously doing the right thing too. I've never really worried too much about getting into the "technical" stuff before and simply got by with my trust pH and ammonia test kits when I remembered. I feel like a need a little lab coat for running around the house with test tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 ahh, once you get the dose rates right in your aging drum & your water change schedule set you'll shelve the kits away for a rainy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.