parkap Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Howdy All, <Sentence removed so as not to make anyone think the dwarf forum isn't used enough.> I hope to set up a fish room and start breeding my apistogramma's after I move house in 6-9 months. So would love some breeding tips. Anything will help, eg. appropriate dither fish, things that work, things that don't, post hatching issues (eg. aggressive behaviour by female to male in some species), good/bad parents, common problems, water parameters, raising fry, basically anything... Hope to see some interesting tips and experiences. Regards, p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedglass Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 what kind of apistos are you breeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 what kind of apistos are you breeding? ← It depends on what I'll have at the time. At the moment I'm carrying at least male/female pairs of: cacatuoides, agassizii, baenschi, viejita and bitaeniata. p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedglass Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 as far as ditherfish are concerned, I like nannostomus pencilfish .... they're quite calm fish in the right environment, and their mouths are very small, so they're not likely to be a nuisance in relation to fry. all the others vary in conditions and behaviour. I've got viejita and caetei, the caetei seem to be more aggressive protectors of their realm than viejita. The viejita i cave consist of 1 male and 2 females, water I keep about 5.5ph and 4dh. temp is 26C. The girls are too small for breeding yet, but they're all feeding well on blackworms and flake food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 My ideal breeding setup .. lots and lots of tanks. I would go 3fters with 2 different types of apistos, or a larger group of 6+ of the same species for breeding fish. Ive never had any luck with a single pair housed on their own. Aim for excellent and exact water conditions for breeding, quite a few apistos are black water fish, so 0 hardness, low low pH etc. Do the research on what works for other people and match the needed water conditions. Remove fry a week or so free swimming to tiny tanks for fry, easier to manage, get food to the fry, do water changes etc. Then into bigger grow out tanks as the fry get bigger. By about 1cm in length I reckon multiple spawns of the same species can be housed together. Get your partner to give you an unlimited cheque book.... oh one day Ill get there! Cheers Steph PS: www.sydneycichlid.com has a very old article of mine about breeding apistos in a community tank. It was a bit of a disaster but while the breeding frenzy happened I reckon I had over 200 fry hatch in total. One thing I learnt is those DIY floating fry savers are completely useless for apistos. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks Steph. I'll definitely try and locate that article. (Might be as hard as identifying dwarf posts on this board now that the dwarf forum has been removed... ) - and yes, that will be a recurring theme in my posts until the dwarf forum is put back up. PS. Have you got any breeding stock / are you breeding any apistos at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think this is the article that Steph was referring too. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/content/?page_id=63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think this is the article that Steph was referring too. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/content/?page_id=63 ← Sweet. Thanks Ged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks Steph. I'll definitely try and locate that article. (Might be as hard as identifying dwarf posts on this board now that the dwarf forum has been removed... ) - and yes, that will be a recurring theme in my posts until the dwarf forum is put back up. PS. Have you got any breeding stock / are you breeding any apistos at the moment? ← I only have A. baenschi and A. trifasciata at the moment, and only one tank set up. Not sure I have time for more and I suspect if I get any fry then it will be a case of survival of the fittest for a while. Having said that the male A. trifasciata is certainly keen to have a go, but to date the female is steadfastly ignoring his displays. What I have seen which amazed me was the male 'snap' his dorsal crest forward very fast, a bit like a cockatoo when its excited. I didnt think that they would be able to do it like that but it just goes to show that these fish will continue to surprise you all the time. I think this is the article that Steph was referring too. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/content/?page_id=63 ← Thanks Ged - very kind of you. I reread the article just the other month and it was weird, I had forgotten so much about that whole breeding frenzy and what a hash I made of it all. Oh well hopefully its a good learning experience for someone else too. Cheers Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Having said that the male A. trifasciata is certainly keen to have a go, but to date the female is steadfastly ignoring his displays. What I have seen which amazed me was the male 'snap' his dorsal crest forward very fast, a bit like a cockatoo when its excited. I didnt think that they would be able to do it like that but it just goes to show that these fish will continue to surprise you all the time. ← Steph, The female trifasciata I have actually took over the control, and lead the male into the cave for spawning. The male was also interested in courting with her, but not as keen as the female has. Now counting days in hope for wigglers - again. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 A friend has had some success in getting Apistogramma species to spawn by doing 1/3 water changes on 1 foot breeding tanks. The water is cold (15-16 degrees) and instead of adding the water rapidly he syphons it into the tank over a 30-45 minute period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Does he do any pretreatment ie increase live food etc. Ive had eggs from both my veijta and cacs (but females ate them after I checked the eggs) and also the water had a pH of 8. I have an RO unit now, nice soft water and pH of 6 but they havent spawned again, its been at least a month (Longer I think). They get frozen food in the am and live at night, Id really like them to spawn again. %0% water change weekly. Any ideas people? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Sorry...that should be a 40 - 50 % water change weekly. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks for the tip Ged, I suspect that my water is too hard at the moment for the apistos to be totally happy to spawn. The tank has gone through a number of evolutions but started out 4 years ago as a salt water tank with a live sand bed. The sand of course got washed and cleaned but still contains a lot of tiny shells. When I set it up again as a freshie I wasnt thinking of apisto's, I was only planning on a community tank so I didnt bother with a full change over of substrate. Now how to get rid of the shells without ripping it down and cleaning another 25 kilos of supposedly prewashed river sand. oh the things we do for our fishies.. the cold water change is an attempt to replicate the influx of cold rain water into river systems at the start of the rainy season, which is the apisto's traditional spawning time. cheers steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 They get frozen food in the am and live at night, Id really like them to spawn again. %0% water change weekly. Any ideas people? Mike Wow spoilt fish! mine only get frozen occasionally and Im very slack about the live food unless the mossies are out. You could try holding off on a couple of water change, eg skip 2, and then do a big 50% change with a bit of peat tea added, that sometimes does the trick. Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 steph, How do you maintain the required low pH with shell grit in the tank? Do you use any kind of pH down powders/liquids or peat moss, etc? Also, what kind of cave structures does everyone use? Don't some apistogrammas have problems with fungus on eggs if the water isn't properly circulated around them? If so, how is this done within the caves? p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 steph, How do you maintain the required low pH with shell grit in the tank? Do you use any kind of pH down powders/liquids or peat moss, etc? Also, what kind of cave structures does everyone use? Don't some apistogrammas have problems with fungus on eggs if the water isn't properly circulated around them? If so, how is this done within the caves? p. ← Peat is a popular choice for dropping pH. As for circulation - the female normally takes care of that part. But fertility can be a problem (I suspect with my current spawning batch) if water isn't soft enough. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Now counting days in hope for wigglers - again. Thomas. ← Counting is over, she toss all the egg out and vacate the cave. Bugger. Need to do some more work on the water. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkoi Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Here's a little tip I got from some of the Singapore guys as well as I see this practiced in the Apistogramma specialist shops in Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong that I have been to ---- ADA Aquasoils!!! The Singaporeans SWEAR BY IT!! The Japanese and Taiwanese shops have ADA soil on all their Apistogramma tanks. This stuff apparently does wonders to bring down and stabilise the pH at 6.4-6.5. Also the substrate softens the water. So I went out and got myself some bags of this ADA "Amazonia" and "Malaya" soil, and put a layer down in all my 62 Apistogramma breeding tanks. Colours on the fish look GREAT now.... Let's see if we get more breeding happening in the next few weeks. Oh btw Thomas, if the eggs keep getting fungus, U might want to try to squirt some meth blue on it. A.trifasciata are pretty easy apistos to breed in my book.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Here's a little tip I got from some of the Singapore guys as well as I see this practiced in the Apistogramma specialist shops in Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong that I have been to ---- ADA Aquasoils!!! The Singaporeans SWEAR BY IT!! The Japanese and Taiwanese shops have ADA soil on all their Apistogramma tanks. This stuff apparently does wonders to bring down and stabilise the pH at 6.4-6.5. Also the substrate softens the water. So I went out and got myself some bags of this ADA "Amazonia" and "Malaya" soil, and put a layer down in all my 62 Apistogramma breeding tanks. Colours on the fish look GREAT now.... Let's see if we get more breeding happening in the next few weeks. Oh btw Thomas, if the eggs keep getting fungus, U might want to try to squirt some meth blue on it. A.trifasciata are pretty easy apistos to breed in my book.. ← Thanks for the hint Kev. Trifasciata cannot be difficult, I get the female to spawn in less than 1 week. I was tempted with the ADA substrate, but held back for a bit longer and see if I can figure out what is the missing piece of the puzzle. I believe it's the hardness, as my bitaeniata are spawning weekly without anything hatching. They've been trying hard to get a family and yesterday it's the 7th time she spawned over the last 2 months. I'm now concern that she may burn herself out. Will toss in some peat this week. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 steph, How do you maintain the required low pH with shell grit in the tank? Do you use any kind of pH down powders/liquids or peat moss, etc? Also, what kind of cave structures does everyone use? Don't some apistogrammas have problems with fungus on eggs if the water isn't properly circulated around them? If so, how is this done within the caves? p. ← I have 3 large bits of wood, which leach a lot of tannins, no charcoal in the filter (or should that read no _fresh_ charcoal in the filter ) I use a little bit of some black water conditioner which names escapes me completely at the moment, its a tetra product tho but not to the concentrations suggested on the bottle. PH sits about 6.5 at the moment, I havent tested hardness at all but will do so when the fish get a little bigger. As far as caves go I use small terracotta pots, with a rim diameter of 7cm. Enlarge the drainage hole a bit and place upside down. Best results is a to allow a side or bottom entrance as well, the females will often block up the bottom hole once they've laid Cheers Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 As far as caves go I use small terracotta pots, with a rim diameter of 7cm. Enlarge the drainage hole a bit and place upside down. Best results is a to allow a side or bottom entrance as well, the females will often block up the bottom hole once they've laid Cheers Steph ← Wow Steph, that's eally interesting about the terracotta pots. I've been using them as well but place them in the gravel on an angle so they can get in or on their side with a large rock in front of them leaving a small gap for entry. If you're just placing them face down in the gravel: a) How big do you make the drainage hole for them to fit through? and b) How do you stop the water from stagnating in the pot? Is the natural diffusion through the increase drainage hole enough to stop this? p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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