steph Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Folks This board's too quiet ! gotta keep up with the big boys What kind of "other fish" do people keep with their dwarf cichlids? I notice on the overseas sites they recommend pencil fish as dithers, what do you do ? Personally Im not sure Ive ever seen a pencilfish but Im sure we have them here. How many just keep breeding pairs in small tanks? or larger groups in large tanks. Species specific or do you mix and match whats available? Cheers Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hi Steph, While I've set my tank up for apisto's, there's a lot of other fish that seem to do just fine with their water settings. For example, I've had a butterfly fish and a couple of upside down cats in my tank for a few years now. I've been told on the forums that I shouldn't keep them in the same tank as they don't like the same water settings. But they're doing absolutely fine. The upside down cats seem to have maxed out at about 3 inches and have never been a problem to the other tank inhabitants. I've recently also added boesmani and neon rainbows. They're small now but they'll look fantastic when they're older. Also have a couple peppermint cats in there as well as a couple of angels, some cardinals, borneo suckers, glass cats and a couple blue rams. All are fit and healthy. Basically I've added fish that are mid-level or surface dwellers that can handle the water parameters. The bottom level is for the apistos. Regards, p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was getting a bit bored with the lack of traffic as well. Anyway my tank over-run with various species of corydoras, and a couple of BN (nornal as well as peps to keep the green stuff down and the glass clean) as well as a few SAEs (to keep black algae from killing the plants). Otherwise tank intending for spawning will only host a pair or two of apisto. There has been spawns in the past in the community tank but none survived. Just a bit of caution on the rainbow, I recall in the past (I think from Simon) that rainbow is one of the natural carrier of fish TB. Not sure if this is still true anymore. He has written a long article on fish TB on the old dwarf site, not sure if it is still around. It's nothing against you parkap (I did wrote upside down catfish may not be compatible with apisto depending on the species and pH level), just something I've once read in the past (maybe Steph can remember more on this). Cheers, Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I usually keep a bristlenose or something similar. I also keep a small school of dithers. I use pencil fish (Auburn has 2 types right now), cardinal tetras. I have used harliquin rasboras but unless your dwarves are very outgoing they are too agressive eaters. I have a yo yo in one of the tanks who seems fine and a cory in another. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkap Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 It's nothing against you parkap (I did wrote upside down catfish may not be compatible with apisto depending on the species and pH level), just something I've once read in the past (maybe Steph can remember more on this). Cheers, Thomas. ← No offence taken Thomas. All advice is good advice. I would have originally put the upside downs in there out of total ignorance. But they've proven to be really good tank mates with everyone. Didn't know that about the fish TB and rainbows. Has anyone had any direct experience with this? I'm guessing it's not a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Simon (and I think Melbourne Bill) had experienced it. If it not that easily recognise, and most of the time when a fish died - the owner would just toss it out rather than performing a postmortem to determine the cause of death. That's why Simon had written a very good article about fish TB, it was posted on the old dwarf cichlid board many years ago. Possibly Yew may still have a copy somewhere. From what I've heard, fish TB is contagious, can spread to human. Should be reported to authority if identified. I've had suspected cases in the past, fortunately the finding isn't conclusive. In Simon's case (from memory), he euthanised all fish after the cause is identified (various symptoms plus autopsy) and sterilise all tanks with phenol. He wasn't certain the source of the infection, but believed it maybe related to the rainbow (after some research through the net). As most people don't quarantine their newly aquired fish before introducing into their tank, it sometime can be difficult to prevent the spread (especially for infections that has longer than usual incubation period before any symptoms shows up). No offence taken Thomas. All advice is good advice. I would have originally put the upside downs in there out of total ignorance. But they've proven to be really good tank mates with everyone. Didn't know that about the fish TB and rainbows. Has anyone had any direct experience with this? I'm guessing it's not a good thing. ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abob Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 I have found some killifish to be great apisto tankmates. Some Aphyosemions like Ap. australe and Ap. gardneri add nice colours and will even breed in a tank with apistos. I often keep corydoras and bristlenose cats with apistos too and recently picked up some pencilfish (after reading about how good they are with apistos) which seem to go well. I intend trying to breed the pencilfish as well. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv_919 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Anyway my tank over-run with various species of corydoras, and a couple of BN (nornal as well as peps to keep the green stuff down and the glass clean) as well as a few SAEs (to keep black algae from killing the plants. Hi Thomas, This is a little off topic, but SAF rings a bell but having a total memory laps to what it stands for. I have a fish in mind but not sure if its the same one. And are they really good for black algue? How big is your tank compred to the BNS and SAEs? Thanks Viv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Hi Viv, SAE = Siamese Algae Eater. There are several species that looks alike, but only the true SAE will handle the black algae. This URL provides a guide to ID between them: http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ As for the last question - I'm not sure how to answer that Why are you concern about the tank size for BNS and SAE?? Thomas. Anyway my tank over-run with various species of corydoras, and a couple of BN (nornal as well as peps to keep the green stuff down and the glass clean) as well as a few SAEs (to keep black algae from killing the plants. Hi Thomas, This is a little off topic, but SAF rings a bell but having a total memory laps to what it stands for. I have a fish in mind but not sure if its the same one. And are they really good for black algue? How big is your tank compred to the BNS and SAEs? Thanks Viv ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozie Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I was getting a bit bored with the lack of traffic as well. Just a bit of caution on the rainbow, I recall in the past (I think from Simon) that rainbow is one of the natural carrier of fish TB. Not sure if this is still true anymore. He has written a long article on fish TB on the old dwarf site, not sure if it is still around. Cheers, Thomas. ← Eeeeeekkkk! Thomas, just read your post about Rainbows...I'm assuming your talking about Rainbow cichlids? Anyway, just got one at the Auction the other day and have added it to my tank along with my others....Should I be worried about the possibility of this little guy carrying TB? His mate that was with him when I got him didn't survive the ride home but this guy looks really healthy. What are the warning signs and what should I be looking for???? Cheers Suzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Hi Snoozie, Not cichlid, but rainbow fish. I'm no expert on this, from memory the carrying host may not show any symptom of the infection until it's too late. The likelyhood isn't high for fish that are kept in aquarium, more likely with wild caught specimen. Thomas. Eeeeeekkkk! Thomas, just read your post about Rainbows...I'm assuming your talking about Rainbow cichlids? Anyway, just got one at the Auction the other day and have added it to my tank along with my others....Should I be worried about the possibility of this little guy carrying TB? His mate that was with him when I got him didn't survive the ride home but this guy looks really healthy. What are the warning signs and what should I be looking for???? Cheers Suzie ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozie Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Hi Snoozie, Not cichlid, but rainbow fish. I'm no expert on this, from memory the carrying host may not show any symptom of the infection until it's too late. The likelyhood isn't high for fish that are kept in aquarium, more likely with wild caught specimen. Thomas. PHEWEEEEEEE! I nearly had a heart attack lol...I'm still learning about all these wonderful little cichlids! Sorry bout that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Sorry guys, but this may throw a spanner in the works. My old lecturer at uni (who was also a fish pathologist) reckons that TB is endemic in most fish communities, particularly aquarium fish. His warning to us was to assume that ALL fish have it, however not all fish will die from it or even show signs. Hi advise was to ALWAYs wear gloves when handling fish and ALWAYS wash your hands after having your hands in the tank/touching equipment etc. this is particularly important if your immune compromised (diabetic, HIV, stressed etc) or children. Either way its probably good practice anyway. Ill try and dig up some more this week about it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That sounds serious. I remembered any outbreak of fish TB require to be reported to the authority - is this still true?? If it is as bad as it sounds, why the government hasn't close down the aquarium trade already . Although it's always better to be safe, but don't think the situation is that bad yet. Thomas. Sorry guys, but this may throw a spanner in the works. My old lecturer at uni (who was also a fish pathologist) reckons that TB is endemic in most fish communities, particularly aquarium fish. His warning to us was to assume that ALL fish have it, however not all fish will die from it or even show signs. Hi advise was to ALWAYs wear gloves when handling fish and ALWAYS wash your hands after having your hands in the tank/touching equipment etc. this is particularly important if your immune compromised (diabetic, HIV, stressed etc) or children. Either way its probably good practice anyway. Ill try and dig up some more this week about it. Mike ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozie Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That sounds serious. I remembered any outbreak of fish TB require to be reported to the authority - is this still true?? If it is as bad as it sounds, why the government hasn't close down the aquarium trade already . Although it's always better to be safe, but don't think the situation is that bad yet. Thomas. Sorry guys, but this may throw a spanner in the works. My old lecturer at uni (who was also a fish pathologist) reckons that TB is endemic in most fish communities, particularly aquarium fish. His warning to us was to assume that ALL fish have it, however not all fish will die from it or even show signs. Hi advise was to ALWAYs wear gloves when handling fish and ALWAYS wash your hands after having your hands in the tank/touching equipment etc. this is particularly important if your immune compromised (diabetic, HIV, stressed etc) or children. Either way its probably good practice anyway. Ill try and dig up some more this week about it. Mike ← ← Just when you think it's safe to relax..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Its not that bad...there are lots of diseases we can get from our pets...some worms that dogs and cats get migrate to the human eye and cause blindness, cat scratch fever is common and painful, there is a disease humans get from cow urine (only a problem for dairy workers of course), pet snakes carry a bacteria on theire skin that is potetntially dnagerous to humans, and a hundred other examples. If we worried about catching diseases we wouldnt go outside or touch each other or even eat food, its just a normal part of life BUT if we know there is a potential problem then we need to do things to reduce the chance of getting it ie washing hands etc. TB is endemic but fish keeping wont be banned and it shouldnt be either. Just take sensible precautions. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv_919 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I actually have a flying fox, and its causing a bit of a problem at the moment. I have 2 other ground feeders as well in my 2ft. Got plenty of plants, but it chases even my black widows around the tank. I only got it a week ago and its causing so much stress for my other fish. Is this normal, or did I get talked into buying the wrong fish or is it just stressed due to its new surroundings. Its the reason I was asking about the size of a tank. Thanks . ps sorry everyone I know this isn't really related, I was originally reading the posts 4 my interest in Dwarfs Viv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Remember also that the TB that our fish may carry is NOT the human TB. There are tens of different mycobacterium that cause the disease and those that cause it in fish are different from the species that affects humans. The signs of the disease in humans is mostly cutaneous (skin) lesions (can anyone confirm this, my memory isnt what it used to be). I dont think we get the classic lung tubercles that the human form of the disease causes. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 From memory, fish TB can transfer to human. But only develops skin lesions from informations I've read in the past. However it is contageous amongst fish, and take an aweful long time to develop. Thomas. Remember also that the TB that our fish may carry is NOT the human TB. There are tens of different mycobacterium that cause the disease and those that cause it in fish are different from the species that affects humans. The signs of the disease in humans is mostly cutaneous (skin) lesions (can anyone confirm this, my memory isnt what it used to be). I dont think we get the classic lung tubercles that the human form of the disease causes. Mike ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Never had a flying fox, but the true SAE requires to be kept in group. They'll chase each other around the tank as this is part of their normal behaviour. If only one is present, it will try to chase other fish. So they will chase their own kind if available, otherwise tankmate become substitute. Thomas. I actually have a flying fox, and its causing a bit of a problem at the moment. I have 2 other ground feeders as well in my 2ft. Got plenty of plants, but it chases even my black widows around the tank. I only got it a week ago and its causing so much stress for my other fish. Is this normal, or did I get talked into buying the wrong fish or is it just stressed due to its new surroundings. Its the reason I was asking about the size of a tank. Thanks . ps sorry everyone I know this isn't really related, I was originally reading the posts 4 my interest in Dwarfs Viv ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv_919 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Thanks Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv_919 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Never had a flying fox, but the true SAE requires to be kept in group. They'll chase each other around the tank as this is part of their normal behaviour. If only one is present, it will try to chase other fish. Hi Thomas, I found out that sometimes the SAE is called a Flying Fox. Don't understand why though. Thanks to your help I'll be able to calm my fish down. Viv ps. what was that URL, you never put up the link. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th0mas Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks for pointing that out, now fixed. Apart from the Chinese Algae Eater, the other 3 species are commonly sold as flying fox in the Australian aquarium trade (like many other examples where fish were sold with incorrect label). So it is the other way around, the LFS are labelling the SAE as flying fox and most don't understand the value of a true SAE in a planted tank. Thomas. Never had a flying fox, but the true SAE requires to be kept in group. They'll chase each other around the tank as this is part of their normal behaviour. If only one is present, it will try to chase other fish. Hi Thomas, I found out that sometimes the SAE is called a Flying Fox. Don't understand why though. Thanks to your help I'll be able to calm my fish down. Viv ps. what was that URL, you never put up the link. Thanks again ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hi Try this link, print it out and take it with you to the LFS, its a great help. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozie Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Hi Folks This board's too quiet ! gotta keep up with the big boys What kind of "other fish" do people keep with their dwarf cichlids? I notice on the overseas sites they recommend pencil fish as dithers, what do you do ? Personally Im not sure Ive ever seen a pencilfish but Im sure we have them here. How many just keep breeding pairs in small tanks? or larger groups in large tanks. Species specific or do you mix and match whats available? Cheers Steph ← Just to add to the original topic I thought I'd share with you what I keep with my Kribs. I used to have 12 x neons, 6 x Bloodfin tetras (now only 2 bloodfins, no neons)... 2 x Cobalt Blues (these are responsible for my lack of neons and tetras) 2 x Electric Yellows 1 x Rainbow Cichlid 2 x Rainbow Sharks 1 x Bala Shark 3 x Bristlenose 2 x Pearl Gouramis Any suggestions on some good middle / top fish that won't become part of the bigger Cichlids diet? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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