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Tank Cycling


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</DIV><H1>I want the damn fish now</H1><DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>My saga started some weeks ago. Just to summarise. 420 litre tank. 2 x Eheim 2128 and a wet/dry sump. Sand substrate and limestone rocks.

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I started cycling with 6 Julies. After 10 days the tank went all cloudy and during the time it was cloudy the Julies died, suspected but nonetheless unbeknown to me. Ammonia levels shot up and I hit the tank with AmmoLock for the sake of the fish..... (this created a problem for me later in measuring the ammonia levels because although the ammonia was converted to ammonium, which supposedly is still available to the nitrifying bacteria, it still registered on my test kit for weeks. It wasn't until I got a Seachem ammonia test kit, which measures free ammonia, that I was able to accurately measure the (bad) ammonia levels in the tank.) After another week, I pulled all the rocks out and found all six fish dead.

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So I continued on with a fishless cycle - the ammonia was up there anyway. Eventually the nitrites kicked in. From reading one of the articles on the net about the fishless cycling process I calculated that I needed to add 1/2 cup ammonia a day to keep the process going. I did this and the ammonia was gone within half a day every day. Finally the nitrites dropped to zero but the nitrates were as expected through the roof.

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I was all ready to get the first lot of fish for the tank. The night before my visit to the LFS I did a large water change, 80%, in an effort to get the nitrates under control before fish went into the tank (I refilled with treated water and the filters were only off for about 20 minjutes). I finished this and to my horror when I tested the water, not only were the nitrates still off the scale, but the nitrites were peaked again at 5PPM. I did another 50% water change the next day which had no effect on either parameter.

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Well, it is now 6 days since I did the big water changes and STILL the nitrites are at 5PPM, 6 days later. Ammonia is 0 but the nitrites are way up there. What the hell is going on here? What can I do about it?

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: starreys</STRONG><BR><BR>the whole process takes 6 weeks but if you want to speed it up you can take an old filter from an established running tank, that will handle your tank capacity and some old tank water and add it to your tank if you have neither then its just a matter of waiting , try some gold fish they are cheap and wait . Eventually your nitrate level will come down, i know thats no consellation. But you need the bacteria to work on the nitrates and thats where an old filter will come in handy .Hope all that makes sense been a while since i cycled a tank.

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Sarah

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>It's been 6 weeks, I've been down to 0 PPm for ammonia and nitrites. I just want to kno wwhy the big nirite spike for the last week and what I can do about it. I don't have another tank or access to a cycled filter

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: MagicaDiSpell</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Flashgordon,

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I am sorry to hear about your julies. I would always suggest a couple of bristlenose catfish for cycling, if you are setting up a tropical tank. They are pretty hardy, and remain useful after the cycling of your tank is complete. Just feed them a little, not too much.

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I am surprised to read that your nitrite levels increased after the waterchange. I am not quite certain where the North Shore gets its water from, but testing the water might be an idea - especially if you are using tankwater vs townwater. Same with the nitrates.

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As for nitrates, I would probably not be too paranoid about nitrates. Most cichlids are able to withstand reasonable levels of nitrates, it is only a few species that suffer when nitrates get too high.

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In an aquarium situation the options of removing nitrates are limited. You can either perform waterchanges or you can plant some fast growing plants (don't forget to feed them with some aquatic plant food available at your LFS) the third option is using an anaerobic digestor. I have no experience with the last option and don't know how well they work.

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Once your tank has stabilised, and you have all the fish in there that you are planning to put in, you can easily calculate how much water you need to change how often, in order to keep nitrate levels constant. Just measure, change the water, measure again and repeat the next day, if the nitrate the next day is as high as the day before (pre-waterchange), then you know that your waterchange maintains that level of nitrate.

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I hope this helps. Good luck with your setup.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: SamJW</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Flash,

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Just my two cents...... When you do finally put some fish in your tank, be careful that you don't over do it, as if you do then it may spike again.

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Don't beat yourself up to much over it, I'm sure most of us have been there at one stage or another

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Good luck

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Sam.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: meesterclarence</STRONG><BR><BR>Greetings. We have all definately been there. I'ts the harderst thing in the world sometimes to be patient while the tank cycles. However, as mentioned go easy on the number of fish you intoduce, because the same thing can repeat itself all over again. Stick with a couple of inexpensive, hardy fish. Also remember if you have serious nitrate levels, there is a product for freshwater only, called "nitrazorb", it works wonders!. Best of luck, and sorry to hear about your fish.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Link 2 Hell</STRONG><BR><BR>Can you explain why you did an 80% water change and turned the filters off on a newly established bacteria colony that was working ........ I think you answered your own questions as to the end result

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There are some lessons to be learnt by this on new tanks and filters ...... it most likely wasn't the first prob you have had and it won't be the last ....... just part of the game

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Try again but no excessive water changes and don't shut off the filter this time other than that you had it all going right

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in the middle

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Use something other than Tangs as test fish goldfish work well

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L2H

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>Sure. Here is my rationale. The nitrate levels were through the roof, greater than 100PPM. I was going to put fish in the tank the next day so the best time to deal with the high levels of nitrate is before the fish get in there and the best way I know how to deal with it is with a decent size water change. By definition the the greatest volume of nitrifying bacteria live in the filters not the tank water. As far as shutting down the filter, it was for less than 20 minutes and my understanding is that this is not long enough to cause death by oxygen deprivation to the bateria. (This is based on extensive research and past experience). But, maybe I am wrong on this.

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As far as the cycling fish, I went to the LFS to get something hardy - black molly or the like, but allowed myself to be swayed by the LFS owner........

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Cichlids au</STRONG><BR><BR>If you can make it to Cambelltown I'll lend you an ice-cream container filter and some of my old tank water. (you can have the tank water to keep

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: creature100</STRONG><BR><BR>just my 2 cents...i have never cycled a tank in my life....and ive never had a fish die on me from adding to the tank straight away.....

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Beagly</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day

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I would do exactly what you are doing right now. I believe that it is a much less stressful way to start with a new batch of fish. Whilst you may get away without cycling the tank you may not as well.

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PS. I use gravel, water and filters from running tanks and then simply add aged water. Easy and it works for me.

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Perhaps if you put your location up in a message a user that lives near to you may be able to help with the lend of some gravel or a filter.

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CYA Beagly...

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks Beagly. I live on the Northern Beaches at Killarney Heights. Anybody nearby can spare a mature filter for a few days it would be appreciated

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Cichlids au</STRONG><BR><BR>At least I offered

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Cichlids_au

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: phillipdoan</STRONG><BR><BR>hey guys,

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i have a new 4ftx18x18 and i want to start cycling it before i introduce fish into it, i was wondering if i could use some of the water from my other tanks (they are both cichlid tanks) and put them into my new tank, would this help a lot? i intend to add 3/4 cycled water and 1/4 new water, i'll start doing this as soon as i do a water change for my tanks, would this speed the process of cycling?

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do u also think that if i add my internal sponge filter from my other tank, would help?

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i am also adding new gravel 'white chipped marble' into it also which might slow down the process of cycling.

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any advice? thankyou in advance

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p.s. i am intending to use this tank for my Tropheus sp. black Bembas

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From Phillip

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Cichlids au</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Philip

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The used water and sponge will do the trick straight away for you. You can also add some of the substrate also.

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You will find that this is the same as aging your tank over a prolonged period of time.

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I use an Ice-cream container filter and old water at about 3/4 - 1/4 ratio and introduce fish immediately and have never lost fish this way.

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After the canister filter has populated I remove the Ice-cream container filter if I want to.

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I generally leave them in though. I currently have 4 of them running in tanks that don't need them just so that I can keep them in peak condition should I need to start a new tank or help someone out.

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If I were taken up on the offer above, our friend here would have had fish in his tank by Monday.

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BTW the new gravel will not affect the process

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Cichlids_au

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>Hey Cichlids Au

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You did offer and I thank you. I appreciate it. You are just a bit for for me....

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Cichlids au</STRONG><BR><BR>No problems Flash.

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Cichlids_au

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Beagly</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day

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You are of course welcome to some of my bacteria, but I didn't think you would be willing to drive up to KAtoomba for it, but if you change your mind let me know.

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CYA Beagly...

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: flashgordonv</STRONG><BR><BR>Beagly

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thanks for the offer. Appreciated.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: calvus75</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Flash,

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Have to agree with Link here, you shouldn't have shut the filter down & 20 minutes without oxygen is a long time in the prokaryotic world. Sounds like you were 95% there until you did the big change and shutdown (bacterial genocide

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Anyway, you live and learn (the hard way usually) if you find yourself in the same situation again try a series of 25-30% changes over several days until the system settles, whilst ensuring that your filtration remains on.

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Good luck and may the force be with you

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paul

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