Apisto popularity

[BlakeyBoyR]

I dont know about you guys but it seems apistos are becoming way more popular of late. Since I posted that list of apistos available from AI I've had lots of people PMing me about ordering fish and general apisto questions. Has anyone else noticed this sudden rise in the popularity of apistogrammas? I mean I know people have always kept them, but it just seems of late people are catching on to what groovy little fish they are. Maybe I'm just imagining it

On a separate note, a few of you have contacted me about talking to Anthony at Auburn and getting prices for wildcaught apistogrammas of the aquarium industries wholsale list. Now, whilst I am more than happy to recommend Anthony and Auburn, and tell you how easy they are to deal with etc. I can't get prices for all of you. I've spoken to Anthony today and mentioned a few people have asked me to get prices and he's told me to tell you "Dont worry I don't bite"

Hehehe, seriously though, he is very approachable. I'm sure if you have any questions or queries about ordering, the process, the cost etc. he'd be happy to field your questions. He runs a business, it is a professional situation and you shouldn't feel that ordering fish is some secretive process through a select few. If you conduct yourself with a reasonable amount of professionalism eg. being there to pickup fish when you're meant to, paying the agreed price and not trying to barter etc. then everything will run smoothly.

[Rod54]

He can get "wild caught "Apisto's ??

Trouble with ordering fish it is the "Luck of the Draw"

Sometimes you get fish that are better quality than expected and sometimes they are rubbish....but if you've ordered them you're obligated to buy them.

Note! I'm not referring to Auburn as I have never had dealings with them...but I have ordered fish from Melbourne with different results.

Sometimes you have no other option because the fish you want aren't available otherwise.

[Ged]

I think there has always been a strong interest in Apistos by a number of ACE members. I am not sure if it was your post or Enigma's photography has really kindled or in some cases re-kindled the love of these beautiful dwarf cichlids. It would be interesting to conduct a poll on who keeps dwarf cichlid species or has one been done in the last six months. I agree BlakeyBoy there has been a definite increase in the discussion of these wonderful fish.

Gerard

[BlakeyBoyR]

I take no credit for anything at all, in fact I'd be almost certain Budi's photos did a lot for people. I've really done nothing at all, merely told people what was out there. I'm just glad I'm not nuts and that other people have noticed a little more apistogramma interest. I think seeing beautiful photos like Budi's makes people realise that big isnt necessarily better.

Im glad dwarves are getting more of a look in, I think they're great. In all honesty, I've enjoyed watching my apistos in the past week more than I can ever remember watching any new african acquisitions. Dont get me wrong, I love my rifters but there is just something about the huge personality of such little fish that intrigues me

[abob]

Apistos have always been my favourite cichlid (closely followed by eartheaters). I've always been a little disappointed with the lack of interest in them as it makes sourceing (and selling) fish much harder. I've been happy to see the pickup in topics here lately.

I'd decided to pay the $50+ to order a pair of unknown quality (probably macmasteri) from my LFS (from AI) if I couldn't get any at the VCS/EDAS auctions this month. I managed to buy all the apistos that came up at VCS : A pair of trifasciata and a male viejita. Miraculously I found a female veijita in an LFS the day after!

I'm now the proud owner of a pair of trifasciata, viejita and a heap of cacatuoides.

Dean

[Markus13]

There is a co-op of hobbyists organising to bring in a stash load of pure wild caught apistos, and heaps more Sth Americans.

here is part of the list they have posted on another local site

Apist. Agassizi Flamengo apistogramma agassizi flamengo

Apist. Agassizi blue apistogramma agassizi blue

Apist. Albertini apistogramma albertini

Apist. Ambiacus apistogramma ambiacus

Apist. Apache apistogramma apache

Apist. Atahualpa apistogramma atahulpa

Apist. Baby face apistogramma baby face

Apist. Bitaeniata apistogramma bitaeniata

Apist. Bitaeniata yellow apistogramma bitaeniata

Apist. Blue eye apistogramma blue eye

Apist. Blue apistogramma blue

Apist. Cacatoide apistogramma cacatoide

Apist. Celeste apistogramma celeste

Apist. Curutu apistogramma curutu

Apist. Cruzi apistogramma cruzi

Apist. Diamond apistogramma diamond sp.

Apist. Eunotus apistogramma eunotus

Apist. Esmerald apistogramma esmerald

Apist. Frank apistogramma frank

Apist. Fresa apistogramma strawberry sp.

Apist. Galaxis apistogramma galaxis II

Apist. Gosey apistogramma gosey

Apist. Hauswell apistogramma hauswell

Apist. Huallaga apistogramma huallaga

Apist. Inka 50 apistogramma inka 50

Apist. Juruensis apistogramma juruensis

Apist. Laulate apistogramma laulate

Apist. Marine apistogramma marine

Apist. Mcmaster apistogramma macmaster

Apist. Melgar apistogramma melgar

Apist. Morthentaler apistogramma morthentaler

Apist. Napo apistogramma napo

Apist. Nijsseni apistogramma nijsseni

Apist. Napoensis apistogramma napoensis

Apist. Norberty apistogramma norberty

Apist. Orange apistogramma orange

Apist. Painted face apistogramma painted face

Apist. Pandurini apistogramma pandurini

Apist. Papagallo apistogramma papagallo

Apist. Paracas apistogramma paracas

Apist. Pevas apistogramma pevas

Apist. Pucallpensis apistogramma pucallpensis

Apist. Purple apistogramma purple

Apist. Ramirezi apistogramma ramirezi

Apist. Sanchez apistogramma sanchezi

Apist. Shishi-ta apistogramma shishi-ta

Apist. Shushupe apistogramma shushupe

Apist. Sunset apistogramma sunset

Apist. Viejita apistogramma viejita

Apist. Xupa New Kind Apisto

Black ulrrey Hypessobrycon ulrrey

Bleeding black point hypessobrycon copelandi

Bleeding heart hypessobrycon erythrostigma

Cory aeneus black corydora aeneus sp.

Cory aeneus corydora aeneus

Cory agassizi corydora agassizi

Cory albino corydora albino

Cory amadaensis corydora amadaensis

Cory ambiacus corydora ambiacus

Cory antonio corydora huangana

Cory arcuatus corydora arcuatus

Cory arcuatus corydora arcuatus

Cory arcuatus red gold corydora arcuatus red gold

Cory armatus corydora armatus

Cory black peru corydora black peru

Cory black corydora black sp.

Cory blochi corydora blochi blochi

Cory brillante corydora brillante

Cory copei corydora copei

Cory daniella corydora daniella

Cory dida corydora fowleri

Cory diego Corydora diego

Cory elegans corydora elegans

Cory evelinae Corydora evelinae

Cory green black Corydora green black

Cory green cat corydora brochis splends

Cory green fluorescent corydora green fluorescent

Cory hastatus corydora hastatus

Cory huanta corydora huanta

Cory jose luis corydora jose luis

Cory julii corydora julii

Cory kiko I corydora kiko I

Cory leucomela corydora leucomela

Cory leopardos corydora leopardos

Cory long nose brochis corydora long nose brovhis

Cory long nose luminous corydora long nose luminous

Cory melanistius corydora melanistius

Cory milagros Corydora milagros

Cory miguelito corydora zangama

Cory napoensis corydora napoensis

Cory nijsseni corydora nijsseni

Cory orange fluorecent corydora orange

Cory ornoptherus corydora ornoptherus

Cory panda corydora panda

Cory pastazensis corydora pastazensis

Cory punctatus corydora punctatus

Cory punctatus corydora punctatus

Cory rabauty cprydora rabauty

Cory reticulatus jumbo corydora reticulatus

Cory shiwa Corydora shiwa

Cory sychri corydora sychri

Cory sychri luminous corydora sychri sp.

Cory san juan corydora sanchesi

Cory xinguensis corydora xinguensis

Cory yellow cat corydora melanotaeniata

Cory zigatus corydora zigatus

[BlakeyBoyR]

I can only assume many of those apistos that I've never heard of are line bred colour variants. The problem I suppose is how in heavens name do you know what the fish look like before you purchase them?

[Aquaman]

I've been gaining an interest in Apisto's for a little while now. In my case, I'm considering which dwarves I'll get into - a great way to try out new species of fish without having to have huge tanks to house them...

Cheers

Richard

[BlakeyBoyR]

And so much personality! Apistogrammas are my new fave. All the personality of big americans like oscars, at 1/5th the size! I love them to pieces. I am converting my african tank to an apisto tank. LOVE THEM!

[Markus13]

Blakeyboy, these are wild caught from the Amazon basin.

i.e. 100% gauranteed new blood (impossible to be line bred as the shipping list will change every month as it comes down to what is caught)

images of most can be seen via doing a google search

The list of wild Tetras, Eartheaters & Discus is just as long

[BlakeyBoyR]

I've been searching on google my friend and there is no image and very little info for some of them, thats what made me make the assumption. My bad!

[Markus13]

many of them are either very rare, newly discovered, or never before seen in Australia.

[BlakeyBoyR]

I've been doing some googling and I've come across a few things that made my PHWOAR! metre go off. I hope you all enjoy. And by the way, we need to figure out how to get some of these fish LOL

Apistogramma atahualpa

A.bitaeniata "Curutu"

Not an apistogramma but you'll wish they were yours

Apistogramma galaxis

Apistogramma inka 50 (and I would just like to add ... WHOA)

Apistogramma juruensis

Apistogramma norberti (this is the correct spelling)

Apistogramma pebas

Apistogramma pucallpensis

A few things I found out tonight:

* There are a lot of different apistos, more than I had ever imagined

* There is a lot of conjecture over correct species name

* Many of the fish on that list ARE naturally occurring colour morphs of other species. The problem is that it is hard to figure out what species

* Blue rams are sometimes called apistogramma rather than micro.

* I am a patient man

* The spelling on that list is terrible. Many of the names are wrong.

* I love apistogrammas ... a lot

* If you thought it was hard to try and find pictures of rare apistogramma species, try corys.

* Australia is lacking in the apistogramma department

* I spent far too much time searching for this stuff!

Hahahaha, well I hope you enjoy the links guys.

EDIT: Forgot to add these two links. Some great photos

http://www.rva.ne.jp/apisto/jpg/

http://www.mtfb.com/SouthernApistos/pricelist.html

[Markus13]

There are some truly remarkable colours in this wild caughts.

Yes, the spelling isnt the best, but be aware that list was compiled by someone whos native language is not English.

there are a load of images here:

http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/jungle.../pricelist.html

(next to the name, click on the XXX for individual pics)

Shi-sh-ita

Fresa

word sensors.... bugga

[abob]

In many ways we are VERY LUCKY with apistos. They are legal imports and there is a large range available through wholesalers compared to the number of people keeping them.

FYI : I have seen both norberti wild caught and juruensis on wholesalers lists in the last 12 months.

If some of these apistos are imported we should pick just a handful, ~5 species and get enough of each in and spread them around to try and establish them here. I don't see much point importing a heap to find that they disappear again in 12 months or that they are all descended for a single pair of imported fish.

Just my party pooping 2c worth...

Dean

[BlakeyBoyR]

I agree, to get some of the rarer species established down under it is going to take a few of us to bring them in and breed them. There is no use trying to bring the species in with only one pair.

As for the spelling, fair enough, I wasnt aware the person who compiled the list was ESL. In that case Im impressde they managed to get so many right!

Right now Im trying to find a female Apistogramma borellii 'paraguay wild', I ended up with two males

[AdamR]

Ive been glancing over the species wanted. Most are here or on available lists. All you need to do is find whats on the list. A good place to find out about apistogrammas is www.apistogramma.com..... good forum, good info, good pictures, knowledgable people. THe prob with that list is that many of them are importers nicknames rahter than their true names. eg. Inka 50 now has a proper name.....(shame i forgot it atm)

In my one year of fish interest ive seen a few of these species, can get many more, and have read way too much. THe info and the fish are available you just have to go outside normal means to find them. Oh and a great book (although some species are not on it due to info available at time) is Ewe Romers book Cichlid Atlas 1

Another idea about importing these fish, one important thing you need to realise before plans are set to establish them in australia is their water values needed. Not many fish shops or people buying fish are prepared to drop their water to ph 5 for a short lived fish for a small selling fish. The fish to get more established are the ones that have a relatively normal ph, look nice and arent too sensitive. This way breeders can sell to shops, shops will sell them (hopefully) and then hopefully they will find more interest for the harder to get apistos.

* author does not claim to know much, but has been searching and researching keeping these fish for the last year*

+

[gingerbeer]

There used to be a web site now closed dedicated to Dwarf cichlids in Australia. There were a group of dedicated hobbyists headed by Simon, Bill, Alan and a couple of blokes up the blue mountain way whose names I can;t remember ATM etc. Unfortunatly these guys seem to be rare now days and moved on.

One of the best things IMO these guys did was set up a project to concentrate on breeding some good Kribs. Dealing with a common fish and concentrating on improving the quality and the effect was positive. Just last year I saw a Krib for sale on this board listed as being from the Krib project stock.

Here we are talking about getting all these more exotic species that will probably not be wildly successful in Aus due to the issues Adam mentioned.

How about we concentrate on Agaazi, Boreli, Pandurinin, Nisenni, Cacatoides, Honsloi. These are here, and sellable being the most common on Importers lists.

Also lets support the stores that are encouraging Apistos, and not bypass them, otherwise where will we sell our fish. SLS, Aquarium Pets in Paramatta, Lams Riverside that I know off have shown a dedication to various degrees to sell/bring in these fish, and I don;t believe will be making any money from them due to losses and poor turnover.

And how about we chooses a night and a time to talk on chat feature. This has been tried before, but if there is interest and we can get some of the experts on as listed above (where's Kevkoi???) then we will have achieved something.

sorry to ramble, just my thoughts.

Steve

[AdamR]

I agree with you Ginger. Those apistos you mentioned tend to be the nicest looking. Some of the Aggies morphs are beautiful. I'd just like to add my support for 3 other shops. Reef at hornsby has helped me out a lot with finding and ordering apistos, and Aquapets at Bondi usually has about 3 types of great german apistos, and slippery little suckers has had some awesome ones in as well.

I love the idea of getting together one night to chat, maybe in the future make a real life meeting, even an off shoot of the NSWCS for dwarfs =]

One of my biggest complaints with Australian Apistos is the amount of deformity. If you wanted a place to start building better awareness of apistos etc, i would start with breeding better lines, or encouraging more imports from over seas, to get new lines. Just my own opinion.

Good to see so much interest in something i thought i was alone with

[BlakeyBoyR]

You're not alone mate. And i think it would be cool in a few years time to be able to look back at high quality, perhaps even export quality apisto strains and say that we had something to do with that.

No one expects anyone to go and setup 10 tanks to dedicate to breeding apistos and apistos alone. However if a few people are willing to keep a couple of different species, and then concentrate on improving that species, things could get quite interesting.

One thing though, I love borellii, and I need to have them around. My alpha male borellii actually ate out of my hand for the first time this morning. I've never had a fish do this, I was so happy I actually said "Wow!" to myself when it happened. Check out my signature link to see my borellii, I think theyre stunning fish and very easy to keep thus far.

And you're right, it isnt realistic to try and keep some of the really tempremental species that require a ph of 5 and blackwater conditions. We are better off, if we actually plan to do this, focusing on the ones that can be kept around a neutral PH. They dont need to breed in neutral, but perhaps be tolerant enough to handle a LFS holding tank at 7.0

[Kribbie]

There are alot more *beautiful* apistos apart from the ones that are on the list as well as we've been talking about lately. Here are a few pics taken by my mates in oversea that they are keeping lately, and they are the ones that I would highly recommend if they are available here in Sydney. Enjoy.

Apisto.sp. "breitbinden"

Apisto.elizabethae

Apisto. mendezi

To successfully breed the dwarves, you don't really need as much tank space as other cichlids. Many of my mates from overseas have been successfully bred a lot different apisto species in as small as a 10" cube tank without any problems at all. They've bred a lot of high quality apistos and gave all the offsprings to other hobbists as presents (ie. they are for free!!!! ).

[AdamR]

I myself am more partial to cacatoides and similiar species, i borelli not aggressive enough when breeding, they didnt defend the babies. My brother has a pair of breitbinden which a great little fish, those on the other hand are almost too nasty for a 2ft, anything else in there gets hammered.

Id like to see some of these........

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/index.php?...d=118&Itemid=44 Alenquer aggies

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/index.php?...d=133&Itemid=44 Yellow gold cacs

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/The_Galler...xis%10Wilhelmi/ sp. Wilhelmi

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Apistogram.../A._eremnopyge/ Eremnopyge

Most of all Maulbruter

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/index.php?...d=245&Itemid=47

Wish i knew how to do those nice looking links.....Sorry

[BlakeyBoyR]

Cacs are nice, but I'd hope to have more than 10 different colour variants of the one species available

PS: I dont know what theyre like when they're breeding, but as far as borellii being non-aggressive, come and watch my wildcaughts for one night. Then tell me they arent aggressive I guess only time will tell if they are good parents. And Im waiting for someone to get back to me about sourcing a female.

[kevkoi]

I'm currently on a mission overseas to source rare apistogrammas and corydoras and various other high quality tropical fish. Over the last few days I just visited an apistogramma farm where they had over 25 different species and variants of apistos in their breeding stocks (well over 1000 parent fish). This facility has well over 3000 apistos at various sizes for sale at any one time. I've seen some strains/species which this farm has tried and tested but now have decided that they are not commercially viable because of the low yield.

Nonetheless, I've selected a few of the rarer Apisto varieties which will hit sydney in the next 2 weeks.

A.trifasciata macliensis <--- last of what is left as the farm will discontinue producing them.

A. papagallo <--- interesting looking.

A.agassizi " Iquitos Blue"

A.cacatuoides "sunburst" <--- last of what's left, again not a viable breeding line breed to the farm)

A.agassizi "Santerem"

A.macmasteri "Blue head"

A.juriensis parent stock didn't look very impressive so I passed on them.

Gee, time to download the pictures taken at the farm....

pH of the breeding setup is 7.2. Filtration is well, small sponge filter. Bare tanks with a small clay pot on its side. Size of tanks are approx 30cm x 20cm tall x 20cm wide for each breeding pair (YES... PAIRS! The eggs are removed to be raised.)

Imported stock is regularly imported to add to the current broodstock.

It's a fairly simple setup, but the quality of the breeding stock is very impressive.

They currently supply much of Europe, Russia and Singapore.

Next stop is to view some commercial catfish breeding setups.

[Alan]

I don't think it is ever going to happen re apistoes here. No one is prepared to pay the price!!! A major importer launched a dwarf cichlid import campaine a couple of years ago and didn't doo too well. tho every one was screaming for the fish, no one was prepared to pay the price!

There was even a local breeding program launched and reduced prices, (7 species),,,,,,still no interest!!!

" shake his head"

You can't order pairs from exporters, just take what goes into the box. Then you have losses.. It just not work out, believe me.

Alan