Ingredients in African/American Food

[D6C1]

What to look for in the food pellets/flakes? high protein? low protein? Whats high? Whats low?

Other things?

[teflon]

It all depends what types of african/americans you are feeding.

[D6C1]

True. But, how about food say for a Red Devil?

[r.d.m]

i feed dozer(male rd) frozen bloodworms in the morning but his favourite is tetra colour bits ,there one of the highest in protein(47.5%) and enhance the red/orange pigment,this is the only food that he comes to the top for which means he recognises the can,just be careful where you buy it ,age of aquariums and omars mate at greenacre sell the large tub for $20 ive seen it at other shops up to $57 !!

[Ged]

I generally work on the following premise but it still depends on the individual species

Carnivorous - 45%-47% Crude Protein, 5% Fat, 3% Crude Fibre

Herbivorous - 30%-35% Crude Protein, 3% Fat, 3%-5% Crude Fibre

Omnivorous - 40%-45% Crude Protein, 5% Fat, 3% Crude Fibre

[RD.]

What to look for in the food pellets/flakes?

Look at the raw ingredients used, then go from there.

As an example, the main ingredient in New Life Spectrum is South Antarctic Krill. (Euphausia superba) I know of only one company that uses Euphausia superba as the main ingredient in their flakes or pellets. (due to the cost of this rather expensive high quality ingredient)

You can read more about South Antarctic Krill Meal here:

http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439&sectionid=5

NLS contains:

Main Ingredients: Krill, Herring, Wheat Flour, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Fish Oil, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine, Biotin.

Guaranteed Analysis: Protein 34% Min., Fat 5% Min., Fiber 5% Max., Ash 9% Max., Moisture 8% Max.

It also contains 300 mg/kg of Vitamin C.

Tetra Colorbits contains:

Ingredients:

Fish Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Germ Meal, Wheat Flour Corn Gluten, Feeding Oat Meal, Potato Protein, Shrimp Meal, Dried Yeast, Wheat Gluten, Monobasic Calcium Phosphate, L-Lysine Mono-Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Algae Meal, Soybean Oil, Ascorbic Acid, Inositol, Niacin, A-Tocopherol-Acetate, Riboflavin-5-Phosphate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Choline Chloride, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Cyanocobalamin, Chole-Calciferol, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Colors include: Beta-Carotene, Red #3, Ehtoxyquin, Citric Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Min Crude protein 47.5%

Min Crude Fat 6.5%

Max Crude Fiber 2.0%

Max Moisture 6.0%

Min Phosphorus 1.5%

Ascorbic Acid (min) 100mg/kg.

Also, keep in mind that crude protein % in fish food doesn't tell you the entire story. For a starter, percent protein says nothing about the quality of the protein, only the quantity of nitrogen. The value of protein is directly related to the amino acid content. It doesn't tell you how that protein was processed, or if it's even in a form that your fish can properly digest & utilize. As an example, feather meal is quite high in protein, but can be low in overall digestibility.

Now take a look at the carnivores (as well as the herbivores & omnivores) on the following page that were raised on NLS, 34% protein, and 5% fat.

http://www.cichlid-food-canada.com/gallery.html

It's not how HIGH the % of crude protein is, it's the quality & digestibilty of that crude protein that makes the difference.

HTH

[efc01]

Before we get too carried away with NLS foods i just want to get something clarified, you say that the main ingredients in the NLS is krill then Herring, i do not agree with this as i have a container in front of me and it states kril meal, fish meal and wheat flower, yes it is similar but anything that has meal with it normally means a cheap filler that cuts costs and adds bulk to the food but nothing nutritious.

For large americans aim for around 40% protein and suppliment their food with some good frozen food like mysis shrimp, krill and pea&prawn mix

[RD.]

FYI - the current & future labels for NLS will state the ingredients just as I posted them. The next round of labels will have the 'amino acids' portion removed, as it's somewhat redundant as the amino acids are contained in the raw ingredients themselves. Somewhat confusing for consumers, so it will be removed.

It appears from your comment that you don't understand the feed manufacturing process very well? Did you read the link posted above on South Antarctic Krill Meal? Sorry mate, but you won't find cheap fillers in a high quailty marine meal.

Cheap fillers are usually made up from low cost grains, not marine protein sources such as fish meal and/or krill meal. The reality is fish meal is multi billion dollar industry. Not only is fish meal used in the fish food industry, it's also used for cat, dog, cattle, pig, and poultry feeds. Some specially processed fish meals are also used in prepared foods for humans, and fish meal is also used in the preparation of certain types of antibiotics for the pharmaceutical industry.

Cheap fillers?

Not likely ......

[D6C1]

Cheers. Thanks for that RD man.

[Ash]

RD - while you are around I have a question I believe is relavent...

When you say feed NLS exclusively do you mean literally exclusively or just prepared food exclusively.

eg: Feed NLS with Krill, earth worms, or blood worms as treats

I wouldn't think these frozen or live foods would be of detriment to the fish, however I can understand using NLS as an exclusive prepared food.

Also, I put in zuchini for the plecs in my tanks as well and of course the cichlids eat it. How do the zuchinni/peas/etc rate in your opinion?

your thoughts?

[RD.]

When you say feed NLS exclusively do you mean literally exclusively or just prepared food exclusively.

I feed my fish 100% NLS, no frozen foods, no veggies, no worries.

Frozen foods are fine as a treat, but not as part of the main staple diet.

Most frozen foods contain approx 80% water, so there's really no comparison with regards to protein, amino acids, fatty acids, lipids, vitamins etc., that are found in a high quality pellet feed. Frozen foods simply won't supply the nutrients that your fish require.

IMO the best frozen food that one can buy is PE Mysis, which still falls far short of the nutrients found in a high quality pellet.

The following Nutritional analysis was provided by Piscine Energetics

Frozen Mysis (% concentration)

Protein 10.4

Crude Fat 3.2

Moisture 82.2

Most frozen Blood Worms are even worse.

Hikari Bio-Pure® Blood Worms

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein 6.0% Min.

Crude Fat 0.5% Min.

Crude Fiber 0.9% Max.

Moisture 89.0% Max.

So when feeding frozen foods, keep in mind that approx 80-90% of what they are eating ....... is water.

Zuchinni/peas/etc are also fine as a treat, but again they won't supply your fish with the proper amino acid balance, nor the vitamins & trace minerals that a quality commercial feed will. Besides the algae in my tanks, the only thing my plecos eat are NLS H2O Stable Wafers. My synodontis eat the same thing, along with NLS pellets, and they are all thriving. I know a number of breeders that use nothing but NLS foods, no treats, no veggies, and no frozen foods.

Here's a recent post that I made on another forum, which was the final chapter in a discussion that I started over a year ago, back when I too was still feeding a 'wide variety' of food to my fish, and questioning the logic behind it. At that time I was already feeding 80+% NLS to all of my fish.

............................................

I'm sure that most people on this forum are well aware of what I now feed my fish, and for those of you who aren't, I feed New Life Spectrum exclusively, and have been for the better part of this past year.

My fish all look fantastic, and breed like rabbits. Over this past year I've fed NLS exclusively to omnivores, carnivores, and even to herbivores such as Tropheus moorii (a species that is notorious for bloat), and all of these fish look superb, and are full of vigour.

Looking back at this thread that was originally posted last year (long before I sold this product) I can see that I was on the right track all along, I simply needed to look at this with more logic, and reason, and not with human emotions. Fish aren't capable of being bored with the same diet, as long as it's nutritional, and tastes/smells good, they will eat. Fish also aren't capable of knowing which food is more nutritionally sound, so the fact that they prefer one food, over another, should never influence a fish keepers choice of foods. My dog likes the taste of my neighbours dogs el cheapo supermarket brand of food (she steals some when we visit) but I'd never let her eat that food on a regular basis, anymore than my wife would allow me to eat pizza 7 days a week, just 'cause I liked the taste.

Do cichlids really require frozen/fresh foods to breed? I seriously doubt it, and I've yet to hear of a cichlid that will only breed if fed frozen or live food. If that was truly the case, most commercial fish farms would have been out of business years ago, as they certainly can't afford to feed frozen foods in all of their ponds.

Imagine someone like Pablo Tepoot who maintains ...... 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry tanks on 2 five acre farms, attempting to keep his fish conditioned by feeding a 'variety' of foods, which included fresh/frozen foods.

Not likely that you'll be seeing that anytime soon.

A local breeder feeds all of his fish NLS exclusively, and he never has a shortage of fry for sale. Most are wild caught, the rest are F1. He also breeds BN plecos, and a few other oddball species. (non Tangs)

Here's a partial list of his fishroom:

Tropheus Moorii Kambwimba Red Rainbow

Tropheus Moorii Ilangi

Tropheus moorii Bemba orange flame

Tropheus duboisi Maswa

Tropheus moorii Ikola Kaiser

Tropheus moorii Kiriza kaiser II

Tropheus moorii Bulu Point cherry spots

Julidochromis transcriptus Gombi

Julidochromis ornatus

Cyprichromis leptosoma Utinta “Fluorescent”

Paracyprichromis nigripinnis “Blue Neon”

Cyathopharynx foae sibwesa

Cyathopharynx foae kekese

Opthalmotilapia boops neon streak

Cyathopharynx foae mbita

Cyphotilapia frontosa Mpimbwe blue

Neolamprologus brichardi

Neolamprologus "daffodil"

Neolamprologus leleupi

Neolamprologus cylindricus

Neolamprologus multifasciatus

Enatiopus (Xenotilapia) melanogenys

Xenotilapia spilopterous mabilibili

Synodontis multipunctatus

Eretmodus cyanostictus

Altolamprologus compressiceps

Altolamprologus calvus

So now when people mention a 'varied diet', I ask them what their definition of variety is?

If I take some marine proteins such as krill, herring, etc, and add to that some kelp, seaweed, and spirulina, then toss in some garlic & various natural color enhancers, and finally some vitamins & minerals, and use a grain such as wheat to bind it all together, will it somehow be better if this food is fed separately one ingredient at a time, or can I feed it all together at once?

The answer to me seems obvious.

Most fish foods contain a marine protein (usually fish meal of varying grades) and are followed by a grain binder, along some various 'greens' such as spirulina, a few other ingredients such as the ones listed above, and finally some vitamins & trace minerals. Pretty much exactly what I listed in the paragraph above.

Most frozen foods contain 80% or more water, and although I'm sure they taste good to a fish, they generally offer very little in the way of protein, lipids, amino acids, or fatty acids, compared to a high quality dry commercial food. Can these frozen foods trigger a spawn, certainly, but so can a water change using slightly cooler water.

The real key to conditioning females (males are always ready to breed) is keeping them in tip top shape, with a highly nutritional & highly digestible diet that contains a wide variety of ingredients. Yes, a variety, but that variety can all be found in one food, if it's a super premium fish food.

So for those of you who feed NLS as a staple, what exactly is in the other foods that you use that you feel NLS is lacking in? Do they have a better amino acid profile, higher quality marine proteins, more vitamins & trace minerals, better or more natural color enhancers, or am I missing something?

Or, is it simply because feeding a wide 'variety' of food being best for your fish is something that you read years ago, and still read today in various books, magazines, and on online forums? I suspect the latter.

I'll be the first one to admit that I too used to buy into this myth about needing to feed fish several different brands of food to make sure that my fish got their supposedly much needed variety, and at one time even felt the need to add supplements such as astaxanthin to my food, but I'm happy to report that now I know better.

The only variety that some of my fish now receive, is some days I feed NLS flakes, instead of their regular staple of NLS pellets.

What can I say, some habits are hard to break.

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BTW - I wrote the following article on NLS before I was in any way, shape, or form connected to Pablo Tepoot, or NLS. I was actually asked to write it by the admin on cichlid-forum, as Pablo refused to blow his own horn.

Funny how things have worked out since then .....

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/new_life_spectrum.php

Hope that helps.