Denitrification Coils

[kilroy]

Hi,

Just wondering who uses denitrification coils here?

They seem simple to make, just read about one made using pretty much a pringles container, taps and an airline.

Do they work?

Are they worthwhile?

Can they be dangerous and produce acid harmful to my fish?

I know they are no substitute for regular water changes, but any reduction in nitrates has to be a good thing surely?

Any info or opinions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

Shane

[Ash]

I made a few really simple ones - they worked* but clogged easy & the unclogging ruins the "cycle" in them.

Might be better looking into a product like Seachem De*nitrate & building a small DIY cannister for it with a really small (<200lph) powerhead.

If you check out the FAQ forum there's a thread specifically on this topic with info about different designs & alternatives. Linkage

* I measured that they worked by comparing the nitrate reading of their output to that of the main tank - on a tank with 10ppm nitrate from memory they would reduce it to ~0ppm, but only processed something like 3-4lph.

[MoliroMan]

Hi Shane,

i use the Aqua Medic sulphur and hydrocarbon nitrate reactors and find them easy to use and effective. But obviously they cost a lot more than DIY coil denitrators.

Dave

[kilroy]

Dave,

Ballpark how much do they cost? I am currently using a product called Nitrazorb in my canister, and it doesn't seem to be doing much. It says nothing about having a slow flow rate on the instructions

I did see the Seachem denitrate, which is the one that you can 'recharge' in prime, but it needs to be in a low flow filter as well.

Cheers

Shane

[CThompson]

I made a few really simple ones - they worked* but clogged easy & the unclogging ruins the "cycle" in them.

Might be better looking into a product like Seachem De*nitrate & building a small DIY cannister for it with a really small (<200lph) powerhead.

If you check out the FAQ forum there's a thread specifically on this topic with info about different designs & alternatives. Linkage

* I measured that they worked by comparing the nitrate reading of their output to that of the main tank - on a tank with 10ppm nitrate from memory they would reduce it to ~0ppm, but only processed something like 3-4lph.

Yeay! Have I finally made a convert?

I’ve been saying this for years, and I think Ash you are the first person to see where I’m coming from.

These are better than coils. They have greater surface area (so can maintain more bacteria), you can put more water through them (so can cycle more water = more nitrate), and are maintenance free (provided you have really clean water go into them).

Craig

[MoliroMan]

these Aquamedic nitrate reactors are connected in series from the outflow of you canister filter. The canister filter should not be more than 1000lph. U can adjust the flow through the 2 reactors with a tap mechanism. The sulphur and hydrocarbon in the 2 canister get used up after a while and need to be replaced but they last 12-18months.

U are looking at $150 each canister in LFS but u may be able to get a discount if u know someone.

I think AOA has a nitrate filter for sale, check it out.

I believe these reactors are a lot better than the older ones with denum balls u need to feed for 2 weeks to get the bacteria going. U just plug it in and that's it. I don't know how long it takes to work but u just don't need to fiddle around with tablets to feed the bacteria. What i understand is the sulphur canister provides the food for the bacteria and the hydrocarbon buffers the water leaving the sulphur reactor back to alkaline before it enters the water. I works on the principal that the canister because of the slow flow becomes devoid of oxygen so that the nitrifying bacteria are forced to use nitrate as a substrate instead of oxygen.

If u can make Craig's DIY canister, i think it is a lot cheaper alternative that works !

[Ash]

Yeay! Have I finally made a convert?

you convinced me a year ago, I just haven't pulled my finger out & actually done it yet

I plan to once I get my rack in the next few months - 6x 90l tanks, a std 4' & a 4x2 would all be plumbed together. Going to need one huge UV for the 6000+lph pump. Plan to use a powerhead or something to feed 2 small DIY cannisters in parallel, one with De*nitrate with about 100lph through it & one with Purigen with the excess flow.

[Palpatine]

Instead of buying expensive filters with too high a flow rate. Why not try something like this? add a small pump to it and you're set.

[Ash]

you could use that & just dump the sand I guess, you can DIY a cannister for about 1/3 the price though.

[kilroy]

Thanks for all who contributed.

I ended up getting Seachem De-Nitrate. I placed some in a plastic container which I have cut in a comb type pattern to restrict the flow. I put the container in the last bay of my external biofilter. Will see how I go with it!!

Cheers

Shane

[CThompson]

Thanks for all who contributed.

I ended up getting Seachem De-Nitrate. I placed some in a plastic container which I have cut in a comb type pattern to restrict the flow. I put the container in the last bay of my external biofilter. Will see how I go with it!!

Cheers

Shane

I don't fully understand the way you have utilised your denitrate, but from what I can gather, you will find that will have little to no benefit. It needs to be in a sealed container, and that WHOLE container needs to be anaerobic. There may be less oxygen at the end of your system, but less does not mean none.

That means you need to have a second container, plumbed in line after your aerobic section, with a bypass if you need to reduce your flow through the denitrate (sealed) section.

Craig

Ash,

So you’re an uncommitted convert eh?

Going to need one huge UV for the 6000+lph pump.

It is not hard to get a UV for a pond situation. If I remember correctly mine at home is rated for 20,000 lph, so 6,000 would be good.

You other alternative is to set your UV up in a bypass, and restrict the water flow through the UV with the taps. Not all the water will be zapped as it goes around but the water will be going around, and around, and around....so it will do it all eventually.

Having it all done in the one pass is better though.

Craig

[kilroy]

I don't fully understand the way you have utilised your denitrate, but from what I can gather, you will find that will have little to no benefit. It needs to be in a sealed container, and that WHOLE container needs to be anaerobic. There may be less oxygen at the end of your system, but less does not mean none.

That means you need to have a second container, plumbed in line after your aerobic section, with a bypass if you need to reduce your flow through the denitrate (sealed) section.

Craig

Looks like I will have to do another rework. The way I have done it was in line with some advice at my LFS this arvo

I am keen to have a crack at a diy denitrate canister, but I can't seem to find any info on the mentioned links

From what I've read about the coils, they become clogged fairly easily and you have to start from scratch!!

Cheers

Shane

[CThompson]

Shane,

It is simple, you can work out the requirements from information you already have. To reduce nitrate you need to have an anaerobic area. You do this in an enclosed container, with a limited flow through. If you bought the Seachem Denitrate, you will have the flow rate written on the packaging, but from memory in GPH it was something like 20 (can’t remember the litres). This is not much water flow, but compared to a coil denitrator, it is gushing.

So what can you use? In the past I have gotten 150mm plumbing pipe and fitting, glued on an end cap, and attached a screw cap on the other end, the water goes in and out via fitted bulkhead fitting. I used a 150mm T pipe, for my last two denitrate constructions, so I could place the unit upright. The down side to this is that 150mm fittings are expensive.

So another alternative is to use an old canister filter. I especially like the old Eheims where the pump is NOT part of the lid. That way I can use my own pump (Eheim Hobby pump), and pump water INTO the canister. That way if the pump is too strong, I can put a T junction in line with the pump’s outlet, and bleed off the excess flow without reducing the pumps flow by putting back-pressure on the motor.

With my denitrate filters, my last one I made out of 150mm plumbing fittings, and put on two pre-filters (one made from an old Eheim canister filter) to make sure the water going into the denitrate filter was as clean as I could make it.

Seachem denitrate media construction from my understanding is nothing different from other forms of biological media. Why this stuff is used for denitrification is due to its particle size. With another media such as matrix, the individual pieces are large. That means when you pack them together, there are large channels the water can pass through. With Seachem’s denitrate, the particle size is similar to kitty litter, and will allow little room between individual pieces. This will help slow the flow, and cause and O2 still in the water to pass through as limited a depth of media where if there is enough 02 aerobic bacteria can strip the little remaining oxygen out of the water, leaving the rest of the now 02 deficient water to pass through the chamber which should now be anaerobic.

Craig

[kilroy]

No worries, I can see the basic principles and why it works, just have to decide the easiest way to make one. I will have a go at using the PVC. I don't really want to buy another filter, I already have two on this tank. I think theres is a way you can piggy back on the outlet hose for my canister to provide enough flow to run the thing. If not, I might just get a very small filter.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Shane

[kilroy]

Craig,

I finally pulled my finger out and constructed something resembling a denitrification chamber. Made from 80mm PVC pipe and powered by a cute little variable flow Eheim aquaball.

Just have to wait a few more days for the silicone to cure and then I can give it a go.

I finally got it through my thick skull. No Oxygen in the chamber!!!

It stands about 20cm high.

Thanks for your advice.

Cheers

Shane.

[CThompson]

Well done mate. Looks very similar to mine. I put my inlet into the side of the T, but there is no reason yours won't do as well. Try to put a prefilter before it, as you want the water REALLY clean that goes into it.

[exaturbo]

hey, guys....

i have a spare 2217 filter that im not using at the moment.

would it be possible to use this in a denitrification filter setup ?

jason

[exaturbo]

oops... double post.

sorry.

jason

[OziOscar]

Hi Guys

Sorry to be a total dullard, but what is the purpose of denitrification hardware like this? I've never used it, but read of it in a few Pommy mags, but the purpose of it still seems to have me beat.

Aren't good water change practices and being a conscientious fishkeeper good enough any more?

Love to learn more about this.

Cheers - OziOscar.

[kilroy]

Hi Guys

Sorry to be a total dullard, but what is the purpose of denitrification hardware like this? I've never used it, but read of it in a few Pommy mags, but the purpose of it still seems to have me beat.

Aren't good water change practices and being a conscientious fishkeeper good enough any more?

Love to learn more about this.

Cheers - OziOscar.

Hi,

They don't negate the need for water changes, they just reduce the nitrates in the water which means your water is a lot healthier and you may not necessarily have to change as much water as often. (if that makes sense). Even with weekly water changes your nitrates build up, so any reduction has to be something good. I know nitrates will probably not kill your fish, but as you probably know they can lead to other problems.

Although mine is not actually working yet (curing the sealant), I have been told they do actually work quite well.

HTH

Shane

[OziOscar]

Point taken...

To paraphrase you, it's for finessing rather than a necessity. Would that be a correct assumption?

Cheers - OziOscar.

[kilroy]

Point taken...

To paraphrase you, it's for finessing rather than a necessity. Would that be a correct assumption?

Cheers - OziOscar.

Exactly!

Obviously too much time on my hands!

Cheers

Shane

[OziOscar]

OK - so how do I get too much time on my hands? :D

Cheers - OziOscar.

[CThompson]

finessing rather than a necessity

I agree that it is not a necessity, but it is not finessing. It is simply taking your fish keeping to anther level, doing all that can be done, and increasing your tank's "Life Buffer" http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=18866.

Depending on what you are keeping will also dictate how great a benefit you may gain. And just because you can't see a benifit dosn't mean the fish don't get one.

Nitrate is a poison, and though it has to be in greater levels than ammonia and nitrite for our fresh water cichlids, it is still a poison, and that is not a good thing.

If you can reduce it, why not?