Camo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Hey Jon I to wish to take the T plunge some day but at the moment i only have standard 4ft tanks(200l). Some people say this is fine some dont. If i was to get a T species it would be Jim's duboisi they are beautiful. HTH Cameron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Thanks guys, I'm sure luck is something that I'm going to need lots of! It's funny how there are so many opinions out there about what the minimum size tank is, especially when you read about people putting them in what is expected to be way to small and end up having huge successes. If you haven't done already, do a search for Tropheus on this forum and you'll find a post about tank sizes. It seems that the biggest concern is getting the numbers right, once that's good they will work with what they are given (i should preface that with "I'm no expert"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrdog Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I don't think you need to count on luck . Do your research, see some setups, ask questions and then ask some more questions. Then decide what good T keeping practices you are going to adopt, don't cut corners and stick to good routines. If you're committed to keeping them happy, they will be, they don't die easily like some people think. Many of us around here are having great success with these guys without the use of Voodoo Magic, so I'm sure you'll be fine. Jamie. PS I know I told you good luck, anyway, I think you know what I mean . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I think that the only time that luck comes into play is during lengthy transport periods eg. shipping fish across the country or moving them (over much shorter trips) from one tank to another. Even taking all of the necessary precautions, bloat can manifest itself when T's are moved. Almost all other parameters are within your control. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Not counting on luck, but a little might come in handy I keep reading and reading and trying to absorb it all, but as mentioned about, everyone has their own ideas on what's best. Trying to work out what I can and can't apply to my situation is giving me nightmares! Having read a little more now, I've noticed a lot of mention about using a UV steriliser on a T tank - is this common? AoA seems to have some at good prices, so I might take advantage of that before getting things running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Camo...a standard 4 foot tank is fine for a smaller tropheus colony ie 15-20. If u really want them and u are serious about keeping a strict maintenance regime they should be fine. Ofcourse, if u are unlucky and get a colony of rascals then u might encounter some aggression problems. That is why keeping juvenile F1s will make it a lot easier. And yes, Jim's duboisi are the best!!!! U should see his WC males, they look nearly as big as frontosas!! and he has 60 adult fish in a 4 by 2 by 2!!!! Spedwards...great to see u are still asking questions. I think u will leave no rocks unturned before u get your Ts. Have u finally decided on the number and variant? UV filtration is quite controversial. I tend to use it in all my larger tanks. My fry growout tanks do not have UV filtration. I know Jamie is the only other T owner who uses UV filtration, so i can't really stress it is totally essential to keeping your tropheus healthy. In fact, some have argued that it reduces your tropheus immunity to fight infections which mean they will be more susceptible to bloat. I have yet to see that in my colonies. The other argument is fish sold to people who don't use UV filtration will soon succumb to all manner infections and die. Well, i hope not since i have sold to a few people who don't use them and i have not heard they have encountered any problems. So i think it all boils down to how anally retentive u really are! Have u ever thought of adding a nitrate filter, like those used in marine tanks made by Aqua medic? Well, i have started using them in my 3 larger tanks and have 0 ppm of nitrates!!! But i do do 75% weekly water changes!!!! Keep the questions coming! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dave, I think I'm still leaning towards the Ilangi, I just instantly took to them after seeing some pics and keep coming back and gazing lovingly at pictures. I'll have to work on getting a few more tanks going to house some other variants. The general number advice seems to be about 20, I can keep 24 according to Steve's Tropheus Calculator (LINK). So I'll aim for about that number, probably start with the 25 and see how they grow together - if things get a little messy I will attempt to remove 1 or 2 until things seem right. I have read about the concerns with raising fish with under developed immunities due to UV sterilisation. I think I might have noticed a few more people who mentioned it, but it could be they were just mentioning it without implementing themselves I have heard about the nitrate filters, but never thought that they would be applicable in a fresh water aquarium (much like protein skimmers). I must admit that I haven't ever done any research on them though, what's involved? Cheers Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Aquamedic has 2 models, One the nitrate reductor which uses denium balls - are like bioballs that are a source of food for nitrate munching bacteria. I have this for one of my tanks. Only problem with this is it requires 2 weeks of feeding some sugary tablets to get it going much like cycling a tank. This has its own circulating motor but needs to be attached in series to the outlet or pressure side of a canister filter. The other model i have is rated for a 1000L tank - i use it for my 300 and 400L tanks. It consists of 2 canisters, one filled with sulphur beads to feed the bacteria and the 2nd contains hydrocarbon to make sure the water leaving the unit is alkaline. It runs on the principle of very low flows so that an anaerobic environment is created within the canisters so that the bacteria are forced to use nitrate as a substrate that is broken down to nitrogen which is safe for the fish. It again needs to be driven either by the outflow side of a canister or its own peristaltic pump. It isn't too difficult to setup, the unit doesn't leak and with the 2nd model, u only need to add new sulphur beads or hydrocarbon after they are exhausted - usually after 1 year. I don't think u should worry yourself over getting these. The key is to do regular large water changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 Should provide for some interesting reading, thanks Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Next question, I've seen reference to people treating with Clout when adding fish to their new home? This also bring me to ask whether it's worth having some blaot treatment drugs on hand at all times, or does it go off after a period of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 As to the treatment on hand.......YES....... clout is a broad spectrum stuff, it never used to be avaliable in australia it contains the most common bloat medication"metronidozol" which is specifc to anaerobs, and protozoans, it also contains other antibiotics, which is why it works, so well, but it can also knock things about a fair bit. I usually keep Metronidozol at hand , from a Vet was 30cents a tablet, i bought 100. 200mg/tab treats 40l but i use it at double this, but most soak the food in it if i feel there is a need, more of a profalactic treatment. LUCK smuck, do it right and you wont need any, i once heard ..."luck favours the prepared" and it is soo true. Ilangi are sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 As they are tablets I guess they wouldn't go off in such a hurry as a liquid might then. Do the vets looks at you strange when you go in asking for Metronidozol for your fish - surely it's not that common a request. I have also noticed some talk about Clout turning staining the silicone blue, definately off my books now! I saw your post about bagging some Ilangi from Jim, you'll have put some pics up for me once they arrive in their new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Ilangi....lol..... if i find someone experienced to send them up ! most vets know metronidozol as it is the antibiotic of choice for the treatment of hexamatitis( hole in the head) if not or they ask about it, there are heaps of articles, and book that mention the tretment, if they need evidence of your intended use..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Give me a few months and I might be able to help you out I have a work colleague who is good friends with a vet, I'll hit him up to see if he can get his hands on some for me. I assume the general procedure is to crush the tablet up and add water to a bucket, dissolve and add to tank. With a similar process (though much less water) when medicating their foods. I don't think I've read so much about fish as I have in the last week and I still feel like I'll be stumbling around in the dark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 i have used crushed metronidazole (Flagyl) in the past and find that it is quite insoluble in water, especially alkaline water. I have also used clout and find it quite messy to crush, although it dissolves much better and yes it stains everything blue. i actually use dimetronidazole which i got from Auburn aquariums. It is a yellow powder preparation that is prescribed by vets for diarrhoea in parrots. It works the same way for tropheus and it dissolves very easily in water. I use 1g per 50L. And it does have a expiry date but i tend to keep it in the fridge. hth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Certainly does help. I've just been trawling through the Tropheus mega photo thread and have seen a lot of tanks have "holey" rock. Where do you get your hands on this stuff from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 u won't believe it mate but my holey rock is in fact from Texas!! I bought it from a lady called holeyrockman via ebay. It is a very costly exercise indeed but the specimens if they arrive intact are 2nd to none! why not use some sandstone rocks instead since i don't seem to recall seeing any limestone rock in Tanganyika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 I was planning on heading to a local landscape place to check out their stocks, but the holey rock just looks so damn good! On the topic of feedings, is it common to use an automatic feeder to continue smaller feed through the day? My other concern is that I will be going away for a month later in the year (automatic feeder would be used in during this time), how long have you left you T's unattended for in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 i am actually working in Wollongong at the moment so only see my trophs on the weekends. i have used automatic feeders for my trophs but i think it is best to get someone reliable to feed sparingly twice a day for u instead. U can use NLS pellets for these auto feeders but i find the flakes can easily get wet by over enthusiastic tropheus splashing about and then u will have the rest of the flake going off. i do however use auto feeders for my growing fry - either crushed flake or NLS grow formula since they need up to 4 feeds per day. i had left my trophs for 3 weeks with no water changes. I did get 6 casualties but i have to blame it on overfeeding and overstocking of the tank. hth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Tell me about the working away from home things, I spend 3 working months down in Melbourne a few years ago - it sucks! I was planning on getting someone to drop in, but the only person I would trust 100% will be away with me. A friend lives down the road but I would hate to ask him to drop around every night for a month. I might investigate a combination solution, automatic feeder that is checked every couple of days. I was going to leave instructions for a water change, with a tub of aged water ready to go anyone would be able to handle it. Combined with the regular checks and feeding all should be good. On the topic of feeding pelleted food, I was preparing to get some of the OSI spirulina flakes that Jim uses and then wein them onto the NLS cichlid stuff. Over how long a period did you make the change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 If you are going to keep T's and plan on being away for a few days at a time I would be very careful about "getting it right". If bloat isn't detected immediately, the chance of saving your fish diminishes by the day. Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parallel Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I was planning on heading to a local landscape place to check out their stocks, Spedwards, Where about is the landscape place in Blacktown/Kings park, I know a place in Kellyville which is cheap but would be nice to know a place closer. Cheers Parallel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 I haven't actually gone looking for a truels local place yet, but i drive passed an Australian Native Landscapes on the way to and from work each day - it's not local to my home, but as I go passed regularly I class it as local. What place in Kellyville are you referring to? There is Turtle Landscapes on the way out to Windsor that are supposed to have some good stuff, but that's a little further to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 come on Andrea, don't scare him off keeping tropheus! i think using automatic feeders should be ok just feed sparingly. Tropheus have never been known to die from starvation. maybe u should place some metronidazole powder in a automatic feeder to dispense every 8 hours just in case!!!!......only joking! i use to feed OSI flakes before i feed NLS pellets. But once i was able to wean them onto NLS, i didn't bother. I think u could probably try feeding them NLS straightaway but only small amounts to see if they are interested. I think people run into trouble because they feed too much. Remember to post plenty of pics of your setup as it progresses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spedwards Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 It's gonna take a lot more to scare me off now, I've seen too many good things! The great advice has also help curb any concerns I had about getting them. Out of interest, how many people have had a complete failure on their first attempts to keep T's? I've been reading up and it seems that every author of a T article seems to say they had huge failures to start with... I will get my brother, or another family member, to pop in to do the water changes while I'm away as they have some experience with fish, the local friend doesn't have any as far as I know. I trust them to be able to pick up on fish that don't appear to look as they should and medicate appropriately. My plan for the food change was to feed the flake for the first week and then start adding NLS in once every couple of days and make the transition to a complete NLS diet after 1 week or 2. I'm off to Bunnings today to collect some parts for putting the plumbing behind the background and with any luck the construction will start on Holy Thursday or Good Friday (Thursday being more likely ). Pop up and grab some sort of fish to cycle with in the week following and then sit and wait again. Are there any reccommended fish that I could use to cycle and then not have to worry about removing once the T's are in? I've read in a few places that rainbows make for good dither fish as they are generally pretty hardy, I have a friend who will be setting up a rainbow tank in the future who I can off load the fish to if it doesn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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