rosco Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hello all, I am hainvg trouble with my adult colony of yellows. they are all slowly wasting away I thought a good worming would help but it hasn't. I have lost 4 in the past 2 weeks and they are getting worse. I have spent the last 3 years fining tuning my yellows to get a premium collection of fish. I discovered that the system that they were on hada restricted water flow (this has been rectified) but I am still at a loss at what to do or how to treat. I have them spread over 4 tanks ATM awaiting some treatment. The fry in the same system are no affected but the parents are . I have tried changing their diets doing daily water changes nothing is working. Can someone please help before I losr the lot. SOme had white stringy poo but the worming meds seemed to fix that now it looks like a internal parasite may have taken over. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakes Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 It does sound like a parasite. If it was an internal bacterial infection it’s unlikely the fish would still have an appetite. What did you worm them with? If it was Praziquantel based meds it should have killed any parasites as well as the worms. Some time ago i had a case of flukes in my display tank which caused all sorts of problems. Since then i began feeding exclusively with NLS Thera-A. It’s expensive and i have no idea if it helps but it certainly can’t hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 They are now spitting out food so i have remove the from the main tank. I initally trated them with a levisol (sp??) based product and I thought the maingano were starting to be effected and they started stopped wasting. I was feeding NLS but not Thera-A. I have gone back to flake so I could soak the medication a little easier. But as you could image they are not eating. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Glenn has some experience with this condition in mbuna. Maybe PM BaZ for some advice or to get him to look into this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 thanks David done and done. I have treated the water of one lot with gill and tape worm tablets to see if this helps. It contains Praziquantel according to label. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyder Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hey, i had encountered a similar problem a while ago, It took almost 2 months to get the colony back healthy again. Unfortunately the med i used is no longer available, it was Waterlife Octozin, i think it used metranidozale or something like that(i have kept the old bottle but it does not say). My medicated food was a delicious and smelly mixture of standard NLS that i had ground up, dosed with Octozin and concentrated garlic extract liquid. Later on i also added the new Waterlife product, Sterazin, this is liquid so a bit easier to use, but i don't think it is quite as effective as Octozin. Upon Diagnosis of one problem fish i cleaned my canister filter and pipes, and did a 30% water change. Subsequently i fed the medicated food and put melafix in the water. After a week it seemed things were only getting worse, more fish started spitting food. 2nd week, did another 30% water change and started to dose the entire tank according to Octozin bottle. Fish started eating a bit here and there, showed signs of improvement by end of week. I left the water for 8 days afterwards (i.e. 3rd week). It seemed that the fish had gotten a bit better after this but then started to go downhill again. 4th week Did another 30% water change and did another full week of dosage with Octozin, again leaving it for 8 days subsequent (5th week). This seemed to do the trick and basically eliminated the last of whatever caused the wasting. 6th Week Started to do a number of quick successive water changes as i could still see some stringy white poo. Did a 30% water change every second day this week. Added sterazin to medicated food. 7th Week All seemed fine but kept feeding medicated food first, then standard NLS & frozen foods. 8th Week, all seemed better. One fish was still spitting NLS, but would eat frozen shrimp foods fine. This is just my account, I think the water changes really helped things towards the end. I also noticed that my smaller fish were not affected I also noticed that the only fish that were affected were my leptos, others weren't affected (i.e. shellies, BN, Cuckoos all fine). The problem seemed to have a cycle, the fish starts by spitting occasionally, then spitting all the time and eventually they just won't eat at all, sit towards the bottom of the tank or moves up to the corners shirking attention from other fish and hiding. When at this last non-eating stage the fish is basically a goner. I only lost 1 fish in the experience, but i saw how rapidly it transferred to other fish... Seems that you are doing the big water changes which is good, i sometimes found the fish would eat a little bit straight after a water change. Perhaps you could try feeding garlic concentrate in your food, as well as sterazin. If you can find Octozin then get some of that too(you have to grind the tablets up with water into a paste then mix with food)...anyway this is just what i've seen in my experience. HTH, good luck Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I had the same thing happen with my yellows for a while, and in the end I beat it I don't have any scientific evidence to support my views, it's just observation of my own fish and a few hunches thrown in for good measure. I found that it was the weakest fish which would suffer from wasting (and it only ever happened with my yellows). I'm talking about sub-dom males or females which were always breeding and not eating enough. I wondered from these findings if it was actually a parasite which was in all the fish but only ever showed itself given the right conditions (weakness and a run-down condition). I found that if the fish get to the point where they are not eating, it was easiest to cull them at that stage because it's very rare to get one back from that point and I wanted to get them out of the tank to reduce any further infection of other fish (assuming this is something which is transmitted). Treatment-wise, I used metronidozal liquid. I would tip some food (enough pellets for one feed) into an old teacup and then I'd use a syringe to squirt enough metro into the teacup to fully saturate the food. I'd wait about 5 mins until it was all absorbed then add it straight to the tank. This way the fish get the medication right down where it's needed. I did this every single feed for about 3 months, and in that time all the weak fish grew full bellies and started behaving more normally. I then used the metro once a week or so, in the belief that it would either prevent the wasting from happening again, or at least catch the wasting early enough to hit it hard in one treatment. Again, I have no factual evidence to back this up and it might be more superstition than anything Another thing I did was to pick up my act in the tank maintenance dept. I made sure that tank in particular had very regular water changes, and kept all feeding smaller and more regular than in the past. Anyway Rosco, I hope some of the above helps. If you have any more questions please feel free to ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 thanks guys for you in depth responses. I found that it was the weakest fish which would suffer from wasting (and it only ever happened with my yellows). I'm talking about sub-dom males or females which were always breeding and not eating enough. Glenn this is exactly the fish that are being affected in my tank I also treated the water of one tank with avitrol plus and it has killed the the sickest of them (to be expected I guess) and I just did a 30% water to see if it will help the others but maybe not. The tank that was treated with the gill fluke tablets (it has the same ingredients as the avitrol plus) has one fish looking OK and it even manged to eat some food and take it in. The other fish waned to eat but spat it out. It has also developed external growths like pimples and grazes so I expect that will die tonight but he\she is fighting on (fish number 7 ). Metro is hard to find anyway but I am going to call a vet that got some for my Trophs to see if I can grab some for a long term treatment. I tried to get Octozin but it appears it is off the stock lists now and unobtainable. Unless something drastic happens then I doubt that the rest will make it through so that is probably the end of my yellows , I will keep on trying however. I will isolate the reest of the colony into 2 more smaller tanks tomorrow if I get the metro, and see how that goes. On the flip side an effected female has a mouthful given my 50% water change and increased flow rate through the system . But on the upside it looks like my Maingano that were also heading down thae same path are startig to show signs of improvement which is a good thing. They are eating and not spitting out food and they look to be putting on weight again so it is not all bad i will keep on adding to this post to see if I can work out a cure for future reference. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdog013 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 rosco, I'll shoot by an LFS that used to sell me octozin tabs, If they are still available I'll pick some up for you. cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 thanks mate I am giving a vet a call today and someone else to see what I can get hold off cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hi all, Still no positive word on my fish but thanks to everyone who has offered their assistance in sourcing meds and the great advice. I have managed to get my hnds on some metro from a sympathic vet so I will try the metro now. I will update this post as results come to hand cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 thanks guys for you in depth responses. I found that it was the weakest fish which would suffer from wasting (and it only ever happened with my yellows). I'm talking about sub-dom males or females which were always breeding and not eating enough. Glenn this is exactly the fish that are being affected in my tank I also treated the water of one tank with avitrol plus and it has killed the the sickest of them (to be expected I guess) and I just did a 30% water to see if it will help the others but maybe not. The tank that was treated with the gill fluke tablets (it has the same ingredients as the avitrol plus) has one fish looking OK and it even manged to eat some food and take it in. The other fish waned to eat but spat it out. It has also developed external growths like pimples and grazes so I expect that will die tonight but he\she is fighting on (fish number 7 ). Metro is hard to find anyway but I am going to call a vet that got some for my Trophs to see if I can grab some for a long term treatment. I tried to get Octozin but it appears it is off the stock lists now and unobtainable. Unless something drastic happens then I doubt that the rest will make it through so that is probably the end of my yellows , I will keep on trying however. I will isolate the reest of the colony into 2 more smaller tanks tomorrow if I get the metro, and see how that goes. On the flip side an effected female has a mouthful given my 50% water change and increased flow rate through the system . But on the upside it looks like my Maingano that were also heading down thae same path are startig to show signs of improvement which is a good thing. They are eating and not spitting out food and they look to be putting on weight again so it is not all bad i will keep on adding to this post to see if I can work out a cure for future reference. cheers rosco Hi Rosco, The waterlife product Octozin is no longer available in retail outlets I can give you some Octozin tabs as well as some more metro if you need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtank Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hi Rosco, I purchased The waterlife product Octozin a few months ago from a LFS at Drumoyne on Great North Rd<_< I bought Octozin tabs to treat my Trophs as i couldnt get to the vet to get Metro. I now have got metro through the vet. Glenn this is exactly how my yellows are being affected in my tank. Pretty much everything thing in this thread is whats happened to my yellows. Ive lost at least 6 large females allready from my colony and 3 more are looking shabby and look on the way out. I guess its pretty much like bloat if u dont get it early enough to start treatment they will die I have tried treating 1 yellow in a hospital tank with 2 doses of metro but died 3 days after treatment. Hopefully u can save yours as mine i think are beyond cureable. They were such lovely healthy fish & then bam this happens. My colony are in with other fish wich are breeding and eating well water conditions are good. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 thanks heaps Aline for that kind offer . I will be ok for the Metro (pretty important with the trophs) since I have finally found a sympathetic vet and now I am known as the metro fish man . They have ordered me some meds so I should have on Monday but I also have some tablets to tide me over until then. I started the treatment on 2 quarantine tanks last night but I fear the worst for one lot as the occupants aren't happy and didn't touch the food. The other tank the fish attacked the food and from what I could tell took it in so maybe there is a little hope. I have to catch the remainder of the colony tonight and start treating them in isolation. I know how you feel Big tank. This colony has taken me almost 3 years to build from 7 different quality sources and chosing the best from them. I fear the worst but I guess at least I still have heaps of unaffected fry in other tanks so I can at least have some of their legacy. The battle continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 To add another Metro offer, should your supplies dry up , feel free to PM me if you need any. Best of luck with the treatment mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackeralEnvy Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 U could try buying Some Jungle Parasite Clear off Ebay, it would have too come in from america ( about a week) but it could be worth a shot... it contains praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole and acriflavine. Ive used it on my fish before and its cleared most things up, sometimes withtin a couple of hours...... Quaratine doesnt seem to have a problem with it. Ive imported it and a know of a few others that have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 DAy 4 of metro treatment and I have lost 2 more but they have stopped dropping off theprch. the final died that was treated with gill fluke meds so that was a bad investment. It looks like they may be stablising but maybe still too early to tell. I just got a larger quantity of metro from vet so I can treat the water of the worst affected ones on the weekend. I am starting to see some tummies appearing in maingano who stomaches were starting to go flat so I think I may have caught them just in time. I am down to 15 or so yellows and probably half of them are in a bad way the others seem don't appear to be getting worse but it maybe false hope. I catch the worst of them tonight and cut them off from water system tonight and treat the water in their tank and see how I go. I had to do some fast talking at the vets office today to grab the meds and sign a waiver before he would dispense it but I got them. I do have about 40+ fry that were not in main water system so I will keep them and rebuild again. thanks again for the offers cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Just an update : Last weekend I caught the yeelows and ilsolated them inot a smaller tank and does it with Metro (1 200mg tablet for 40L) similar to recommended dose I have seen for Trophs. I have stopped losing them it appears and they possibly may not getting worse, although it is hard to tell. I have also continued to dose their food whichis 1/2 a table for approx 10grams of food. They are no longer spitting their food out so that is good sign I suspect. I am also dosing the fish food where the Yellows came from and it appears the maingano who were heading down that path appear to have stopped. Some even appear to getting bellies back so I think that I am over worse for them. I still have one maingano that is doing that so I might chuck him in with the yellows to see if that medicated water helps. I am going to do a 50% water change tomorrow and dose them the yellows again to see if this will continue to improve them. signing off cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 TIme for a bit of an update. I after isolating all the yellows into a smaller tank by themselves into a 100litre tank I continued to add 2 and half metro tablets once a week doing a 50% water change and dosing the water again. I then also soaked their in metro for next 2 weeks they appear to be coming out of the worst of it. During this time I lost another 2 leaving me with around 12-15 yellows left (from over 30). Of those remaining I still have 2 that are still slightly affected I am going to isolate these guys again to but the rest are showing signs of improvement with a few even having fat bellies. I am going to isolate these guys even further and relieve the pressure on the quarantine tank. I am going to continue to soak their food for another couple of weeks once or twice a week to make sure they can fully recover on their own. All in all it has been a very upsetting experience but it has taught a harse lesson to be more observant that I will not forget. Anyway I have 30 or so fry around 4-5 cm so like Steve Austin my colony can be rebuilt. My maingano have almost fully recovered exect for a few holding females who are just thin. Anyway I hope this helps someone down the track. cheers rosco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colfish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 hi Rosco it's been a rough road you've travelled mate. you've hung it out and started to gain some ground with these guys great going, we all might learn something from this cheers; Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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