Rams in 55L community tank?

[panda87]

Hi everyone,

Have just moved into a new place and got a nice 55L tank (30x60cm) really cheap, so looking to set up a little community tank.

I was looking at guppies initially, but now I have seen the different types of rams and am almost sold on them!

A few things:

- Will the tank be too small?

- Could I have more than one variety (eg. gold, bolivian and/or german blue)?

- Can I have other fish with them (still looking at guppies, maybe some tetras/rasbora/longfin white clouds aaaand/or a red tail shark if possible)?

- Would catfish and/or shrimp ok?

I won't be putting in every single fish, I am just looking for suitable companions so I can then weigh up my options.

Tap pH is about 8.0

Substrate will be fine diamond black gravel

I will be adding plants

Climate is tropical so won't be using heating

Thanks in advance

[Link2Hell]

Panda first problem is the water, Rams & Bolivians do best in acid/neutral

as do Tetra's so you would need a storage drum to condition the water

to suit ............. do you know what the hardness reading is

for pH 8.0 you would be better looking at Tang dwarfs like Julidochromis,

Lamprologus and Neolamprologus

I know things are pretty limited in range of species available up there

[Ged]

There would be a lot of people who are keeping Tang species that would love to have tap water with a reading of 8.0.

I agree with Chris that Dwarf Tangs would be better suited to your water's pH.

Do you have a rainwater tank at your new place?

[panda87]

Thanks guys, I will have a look into them.. you're right though, things are a bit limited up here and I didn't notice any of these on LiveFish or in our LFS.

I just tested the water in our other 2ft that's housing our juvenile peacocks until we get the 6ft tank set up. pH still the same unfortunately.

I don't have a kit to test hardness. Can take a sample down to LFS tomorrow or pick up a kit.

We actually have 2 spare 44gal drums so it's an option.. though I think the other half has dibs on them for the pond!

No rain water tank, and we are coming into our dry season so won't be getting any rain for at least 6 months anyway.

Is there anything natural I can use to lower the pH i.e. would a piece of driftwood drop it enough?

[cooder]

No unfortunately it wouldn't. The other option, is use Reverse Osmosis water. A decent unit will remove all dissolved solids, leaving you with pure water. I don't have first hand experience with RO units, so i can't give you the details, except that you will have high ratio of "waste" water to pure water. ( the "waste" is perfect for Tangs)

You will need to add some of your tap water to the RO water. Because RO water is so pure, it lacks any solids that keep the pH buffered and stable. This can result in huge pH drops, which isn't good for fish of course, so adding some tap water will bring it up more in line with rain water; soft but not too soft!

The way i understood the whole thing was (and i could be mislead) that rainwater falls neutral, but lacks a lot of dissolved solids because of its purity, (so is "soft") so the pH drops as it ages. Adding driftwood and/or leaves helps lower the pH by releasing tannic and other acids.

With hard water though, like your tap water, the amount of acid released wouldnt be sufficient to drop the pH to an acceptable level for Rams/Tetras because it has hardness to keep the pH up. It might drop it slightly, but South American dwarfes prefer soft water anyway.

(if I'm completely and utterly wrong, someone should say so! haha)

[Link2Hell]

Hi Panda

have your water tested for kH carbonate hardness and gH general hardness

once you know the harness values you can look at how to lower the pH value

[panda87]

Heading down to Petbarn tomorrow since our LFS doesn't test for hardness :s

Have taken the opportunity to put 2 of our juvenile peacocks in there for now using water from the pond.. they were being bullies in the other tank.

Excuse the reflection of mess in the tank, and poor lighting.. just put a desk lamp there until I get my proper light:

[panda87]

Been down to petbarn, results are:

Tap - GH ~170ppm, KH ~60ppm

Tank - GH ~170, KH 89.5

The tank water is harder as it is cycled pond water that is filtered through 20+ kg of crushed coral.

I'd be leaning toward using the pond water, unless it is not suitable.

Also managed to find a back clip on light at pet barn so no need to wait for ebay! Looks much better:

[panda87]

I hate to be the naggy bumping type, but would still be really appreciative of advice re the parameters

[Ged]

You need to look at the parameter requirements for the different types of cichlids and then compare it to your water. There are always ways to alter the water chemistry but the greater the required change the more work that is involved.

Hardness is the measure of dissolved mineral salts (mainly chlorides, bicarbonates, carbonates, and sulphates of calcium, sodium, magnesium and potassium); the harder the water the more salts it contains.

If you look at the following;

gH and (kH) Range and Suitable Cichlids

0º - 3º (0 - 50 ppm) Amazon/South American fish, including dwarf cichlids, geophagines

3º - 6º (50 - 100 ppm) Central American cichlids, East African Riverine species

6º - 11º (100 - 200 ppm) Lake Victorian cichlids

11º - 22º (200 - 400 ppm) Lake Malawi and Lake Tanganyikan cichlids

It would be great if there was uniformity across the hobby but literature can express it as German Hardness, American Hardness and English (Clark). Divide your gH figure by 17.9 to give the gH expressed in degrees as above.

There are some exceptions to the rules with some South American species occurring in fairly hard water.

The kH or Carbonate hardness helps stabilize the pH value and prevents dangerous drops in the pH value (acid drop or pH crash). An aquarium with a low kH level (50 ppm or less) will tend to be acidic. Water with a high kH level (> 200 ppm) usually has a high pH.