Auto power off overflow/fill up

[Noddy65]

Hi guys

Does anyone have any design for a system to automatically refill your sumps if the power goes off, the sumps overflow and dont have enough water to refill the system once the power comes back on again

I was thinking of a ball valve thing connected to mains but some sort of overflow/siphon setup would be better

Mike

[dogboy]

my first thought would be a ball valve but then how do you add dechlorinator and buffers?

is there anyway of making the sump bigger?

but why is it overflowing? do the tanks drain back to the sump? if so a one way check valve or a hole in the return pipe just below the water line to break the siphon would be the way to go

[Noddy65]

Doh...a check valve would solve the issue...brilliant

Im redoing my fish room filters to try and save some power costs...its been a major rebuild and Ill post some pics once its up and running

Mike

[gillsysyd]

I have $30 float valve on connected to a 20l bucket that accounts for evaporation.

My sump fills up when the power goes so is actually fuller than web it's on.

Could you lower one of your outflow/ inflow so that it syphons a little more back into the sump to help kick start it.

[Noddy65]

I was thinking of a float valve...but the amount of water that might spill out of the system if the power goes out is probably in the 100's of litres so Id need a big reserve somewhere...the check valve would stop it from backflowing into the sump and therefor overflowing onto the floor (which reminds me that I better incorporate a controlled overflow, probably plumbed to run out onto the lawn)

Mike

[dogboy]

check valves will reduce the flow a little but better than draining tanks and running sumps dry, glad i could help mike

[Josh]

The other option would be back up power for the sump pumps. Then the power will not be an issue.

[Squirtle]

My friend has his sump raised 5-6 inches give or take and drilled in the base like a tank. Raises the overflow pipe to where he wants the water and when ever it goes above that it runs out into the garden. you could run it into anything. or just use a overflow box and dont raise the tank

Only other one I can think of is those pool fittings that shut when the water level raises in certain pool filters. I have no idea what they are called / cost but I know they are around. Only issue Is I believe most are electronic these days so you would need to find a old one.

[Noddy65]

Thanks for the ideas guys...Im not too fussed about the water overflow....Im doing some new filters and will post some pics when theyre running, not your standard malawi/tang type filters either.

My issue is replacing that water that overflows when the sump pump goes off...my tanks are all drained from the water surface and gravity fed into teh sumps so theres a fair bit (alot actually) of water to drain out of the many tanks...when the pumps start up again (after a power outage) there wont be enough of a reserve in the filter system to top the tanks up again so the sumps will run dry.

At first I thought dogboys (speyed a 50 kg bitch today dogboy, hate doing those huge dogs ) would work but realised that his idea (while brilliant) would not stop the tanks from draining.

An auto siphon thing would be terrific, if I can somehow drain the overflow water into a tub which would then siphon BACK into the sump when required, would be ideal but i cant figure out how to do it.

The only thing I can think of is to plumb from the mains a ball float that would kick in when required, the amount of water needed to stop the sumps from running dry will be a few hundred litres but is only a small percentage of the volume of water in the whole system.

Mike

[chorrylan]

Mike... it's still not clear to me from this thread just why your sump can't handle the overflow.

Is

1. your sump 'really' small;
   
2. you have a 'lot' of plumbing so you have a lot of water enroute to/from the tanks;
   
3. you have fast inflows and slow outflows from tanks so you end up with a fair bit of 'head' above the bulk heads;
   
4. or is water being siphoned back out of the tanks?
   

If it's to stop siphoning you'd be better off drilling holes in the inlet pipes just above or at the water surface to break the siphon.

If it's 1,2 or 3 then a check valve is only going to help with water enroute to the tank (so usually less than half of the water in the plumbing at any point of time), will add to water friction and aren't perfect (they usually need a bit of pressure to seal properly and are likely to leak slowly with the low pressure you'll get in a power-outage situation) so I'd be trying to deal with the initial cause, eg by improving return flows or linking in an additional/overflow sump.

or just don't put so much water in the system in the first place (you can use a small ball valve and top-up water supply to replace water lost from evaporation etc to to extend the time between manual topups/changes)

To increase sump capacity do you have space for a second sump/tub at the same level? If you don't have access to a drill a siphon should do the trick to link them. eg a length of say 32mm poly standing in your sump over the wall through an elbow piece, the same in your overflow sump and linked between with clear silicon so you can see any air bubbles (40mm clear silicon fits on 32mm poly nicely). You can suck the air out with a small pump and airline or similar tubing and as long as neither the main or overflow sump get completely empty it should maintain the siphon and water will overflow to the second tub in your power outage and back when the power comes back on

[Josh]

What about a 220l food grade plastic drum, connected via a float valve and used simply as water storage. Build an over flow from your sump that lets the water drain to the garden if the power does go off and the set the drum to drain to the sump when the water level drops/ power comes on.

The water in the drum would need to be kept full at all times, but could be rigged to be used in your normal water changes. I am unsure how you are doing water changes now, but I am guessing you "age your water before doing the changes any ways. this water storage could become the water that refills the sump if the power goes off

[Noddy65]

Hi Laurie

Im changing my sumps to a single central filter system to try and save on power..the guts of it involves using 220 l blue tubs...there just wont be enough space left in the top of the blue tubs to hold all the water needed if the power goes out and the water drains from the top of all my tanks into the blue tubs

Joshs idea may the most workable...I do age all my water first and it would probably be fairly easy to rig one full blue tub as a replacement (or even drain the overflow into a blue tub and use that to pump back into the system)...the logistics will take some working and I dont have enough elevated areas for it to gravity feed in...maybe a solenoid that turns on a pump when the water drops too low and turns it off when it gets full...

Is this possible? and where would i source the required gear?

Mike

[Josh]

Anything is possible, I was thinking of using Solenoids in my fish room for water changes, but was warned that the constant contact with moist air could make them fail...possibly.

I don't know how the system would work if you tried to save he overflowing water. I will have a think about it, probably lay in bed most of the night, a come up with something.

I am thinking a simple length of 150mm storm water pipe, about 3 meters, plumbed into the line just before the sump to act a "detention" tank, This will hold about 200 litres. You would need to have some sort of valve to stop water flowing into the sump when the power goes off, thus diverting it into the pipe. When the power is restored you don't want this water dumping back into the sump, so I would think a float valve would be better then a solenoid, as the float valve would open more slowly and close again if the water is running from the pipe to quickly. when the power goes off the float valve would close , diverting water into the sump. I don't know if you could get a float valve big enough to do this, maybe there is a plumber on here that can answer that one.

[chorrylan]

For the topup mechanism get one of these http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/auto-top-up-system-parts-float-switch/auto-top-off-relay-system/prod_1729.html

plug a small (but not too small or it won't keep up with your main pump when it starts up) pump into it and rig the float switch in your sump so it starts the topup pump when the sump level drops below a specified height.

There are pump/switch combinations but I think the pumps are too small for your purpose

http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/auto-top-up-system-parts-float-switch/auto-top-off-system-1m/prod_1728.html

[dogboy]

i find it hard immagine how your system wont work with a check valve. is the water level in the tanks above the drainage hole? if so can you rig a standpipe or similar to adjust the water levels? this is a simple one i used in my fish room:

and yep, still dont enjoy big dog speys. and i am glad im not the only one who thinks of fish when i should be concentrating on surgery

[Noddy65]

Hi Laurie

I think that is the solution...I dont have much room in my fishroom for spare blue tubs but I can drill a hole through the wall and put it in the wood shed next door.

Dogboy: Ive got 4 racks of three high tanks...with multiple tanks on each rack....each level is drained from the water surface by gravity so Ive got numerous pipes leading from the tanks to the various sumps....when the power goes off there is all the water in the pipes PLUS about 2 cm of water on the top of each tank that will continue to drain into the sump, I think a check valve will still let all the water drain out...but I do like your design as there is a few cm on the top of each tank that i cant use because of the size of the bulkhead.

Ive got a few days off this weekend so will get stuck into the new filters etc...Il post some pics then so should make more sense

Mike

[Link2Hell]

Hi Mike

Sorroz has a back up power supply and back to base sms for power failures

if you want to go that way he can advise you