Our Beloved Hobby

[intern1]

As some may be aware there may or will be a reform to the noxious species list which may or will effect this beloved hobby of ours. Andy has made us aware that the during the OFMIG meeting (National Ornamental Fish Management Implementation Group) Norm Halliwell ( some of yous may know him from Riverside aquariums at Campsie) has been asked not to attend any further meetings. This potentially can devastate our hobby, if there is no-one on the enthusiasts behalf to vote or make our voice heard the industry and hobby could be destroyed.

I advice that all of you who love this hobby to email either or both ministers Tony Burke, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Peter Garrett, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts asking for Norm Halliwell to be reinstated onto the OFMIG to represent our interests.

Tony.Burke.MP@aph.gov.au

Peter.Garrett.MP@aph.gov.au

For more info go to the link.

Link

Cheers

John

[LithoMan]

this is a very serious matter i will email both peter garrett and tony burke

we need everyone involved..

[Rod54]

Can you "cut and paste"??

Don't want to join the website to read the link!

[Finn]

Here is the announcement that was sent out by the NSWCS on Sunday after Norm spoke to the meeting

We have been informed by Norm Halliwell, the NSWCS Society's representative on the National Ornamental Fish Management Implementation Group (OFMIG), that the out-going Chair of this Group, Mr Will Zacharin, has informed Norm that he is no longer allowed to represent us at this Group. OFMIG could potentially have the power to ban or restrictthe ownership of some of our beloved cichlid species. For those of you who know Norm, who owns Riverside Aquarium and Cichlid Centre at Campsie, or heard Norm talk at the NSWCS Major Auction on Saturday night, you will know of Norm's dedication to the hobby and to the industry. In short we need Norm's experience, knowledge, passion and strong opinions if we are to have any chance in ensuring that we don't lose any cichlid species from the hobby due to Government restrictions, bans or legislation. Norm has the support of the OFMIG industry and hobby members and also represents the Victorian Cichlid Society.

To ensure Norm's continued advocacy for the Society at OFMIG I ask you to please take a few minutes to write to Tony Burke, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Peter Garrett, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts asking for Norm Halliwell to be reinstated onto the OFMIG to represent your interests. Remind them that OFMIG should not operate without a represent of the Cichlid hobby who have the most to lose from any declaration of noxious species.

Here are the ministers email addresses:

Tony.Burke.MP@aph.gov.au

Peter.Garrett.MP@aph.gov.au

or write to them c/- Parliament House Canberra

PO Box 6022

Parliament House ACT 2600

Keep the word spreading to save the hobby for all

[tootie]

Well done for posting this on ACE. Very important topic.

I've sent off my letter which is the same copy as Mike the president of NSWCS forwarded. Here is a copy for those who aren't on the email list:

Dear Minister,

I write to you as Vice President of the NSW Cichlid Society and

long-time tropical fish hobbyist.

I have been informed that our Society's representative on OFMIG, Mr Norm

Halliwell, has been told that he is no longer welcome to attend OFMIG

meetings. Norm has been an advocate for the tropical fish hobby for many

decades and his knowledge is vital if OFMIG are to make any informed

decisions on the declaration of any noxious fish lists in Australia. Mr

Halliwell represents the NSW Cichlid Society which has 350 paid members

as well as many more supporters and also represents the Victorian

Cichlid Society. Our Societies have potentially the most to lose when it

comes to any declaration of noxious species and so I find in

unacceptable that our representative on OFMIG has been told that he can

no longer voice our opinions at the OFMIG meetings.

I urge you in the strongest terms to direct the Chair of OFMIG, Dr

Doroudi to reinstate Mr Halliwell to the OFMIG committee in the

interests of our members, supporters and the democratic process.

Regards

NAME

[Rod54]

Hard to find any real info!!

Who else from the Industry is in the Group?

All data on their web site is ancient History......Is the "grey list" still on the agenda?

What species do they want to add to the list?

[Finn]

I write to you as Vice President of the NSW Cichlid Society and

long-time tropical fish hobbyist.

I would remove the above sentence from your letter or email and make it more relevant to yourself - some examples: I am writing to you as a concerned hobbyist; I am writing to you as a Member of the NSWCS and a long time hobbyist; I am sending you this notificiation as a avid hobbyist and keeper of cichlids.

Mike is the Vice President and this can be easily verified so please be mindful of what you send out - but please feel free to bombard the email accounts of the Ministers so we get our voices heard.

[Finn]

Rod - there is a representative from Queensland involved but I can't remember his name. Will see if I can find out for you and direct you there to get more information.

[hobcas]

I understand the importance of this and we do need to be represented so our voice can be heard but so as I am properly informed why or what reason has been given that Norm not attend any further meetings?

[WAZ]

Hi Rod

The Queensland representative on the committee is Bill Smith.

[Rod54]

Thanks Finn/WAZ

I assume he hasn't upset anyone.....YET!

[Link2Hell]

there were 3 people backing the cichlid side of the hobby on the

committee Bill Smith (QLD) Anthony Ramsay (NSW) & Norm

Halliwell (NSW) NO WA rep, NO SA rep, NO VIC rep

PIJAC no real help there

Norm was removed for voicing his opinions that weren't what the

previous chairman considered acceptable to his views of how he

expected the committe to tow the prefered line

so much for freedom of speech and unbiased consideration

wether you love Norm or not he has been the main voice in the

hobby for cichlid keepers and the reason the import list was expanded

Queensland are willing to accept loosing species and having a permit

system to keep other species, SA already have highly restricted species

list, VIC have a noxious list that contains cichlid species openly available

in other states, TAS is screwed you can buy fish but can't sell your fish

or sell any fish you breed,WA is on par with NSW but with strict enviro

quarantine rules regarding plants and snails

the aim is to cover the hobby in a federal blanket and has been on the agenda

for many years prior to the current effort, I'll leave it to you to guess the states

that are pushing for this

we stopped them before and with enough voices we can stop them again but we

need Norm Halliwell back on the comittee

email your petitions, get your friends to email the petition, lets crash their

mail server so they get the messaage again

Chris

[ctaylor]

I'm sure Anthony will be able to provide us with a bit more information in regards to why Norm was asked not to return, I'm confident that Anthony will fight just as hard as Norm.

Even if he doesn't have the same amount of experience , the man still knows his stuff.

[Link2Hell]

Totally agree that Anthony is extremely capable but the more people we have the better

trust me Norm and I bumped heads many times before in the 35yrs we have known each other

as I said not ever one likes him but he has passion for the hobby

Chris

[intern1]

Dear Minister,

I write to you as member of the NSW Cichlid Society and young tropical fish enthusiast.

I have been informed that our Society's representative on OFMIG, Mr Norm Halliwell, has been told that he is no longer welcome to attend OFMIG meetings.

Norm has been a dedicated member of the tropical fish hobby for many decardes and it is vital that the OFMIG have someone with his experience on board in order to make informed decisions any noxious fish lists in Australia.

Mr Halliwell represents the NSW Cichlid Society which has 350 paid members as well as many more supporters and also represents the Victorian Cichlid Society. But its not just those paid members that he represents its everyone that has the own home aquarium from the young 6 year old child in kinder garden to those in a retirement village. So taking away Mr Halliwell is like taking away the say of a whole population.

I urge you in the strongest terms to direct the Chair of OFMIG, Dr Doroudi to reinstate Mr Halliwell to the OFMIG committee in the interests of our members, supporters and the democratic process.

Regards

John Caserta

Member of the NSWCS

[@nthony]

Hi all,

I apologise in advance for the wordy response.

I currently hold a position on OFMIG representing the independent specialty aquarium trade and have representing both industry and hobby interests on OFMIG since 2005, yes thats how long the current process has been going. Up until now OFMIG have been working through creating a National Noxious Species list as well as implement a variety of control options for such species. Using a 'low hanging fruit approach that involved industry and hobby reps working through the government representatives wish lists, we ensured the first two traunches of species that were added to the national noxious list were not of high concern or value to either industry or hobby interests, albeit still nasty and noxious. Last November OFMIG through mutual agreement of all representatives approved a third traunch of species to be added to the national noxious list. Once again this list is of little concern to 99.9% of industry and hobby.

In short the Grey list has steadily been worked through a not so perfect Risk Assessment Matrix to generate a hypothetical risk establishment score based on a variety of attributes, climatic match, and much much more. This process is less than perfect and up until now has been viewed as a pseudoscientific filter to quickly and cheaply generate a likely hood of establishment. The biggest issue i and other industry representatives have had with this process is that where information for a given species is unknown to science the use of precautionary principle assumes the worst and assigns the maximum score. Virtually all the information used to populate their risk assessment matrix has been gleaned from fishbase. At one stage even a cardinal tetra generated a high risk score from the process. We have accepted process up this up until now however now we are getting to the species that matter and it has been made clear and accepted that a more involves , scientifically sound and detailed process is needed to assess these species of high value to both hobby and industry. This process is yet to be finalised and was one of the agenda items for the upcoming meeting and will be further worked through and applied at a technical workshop of scientists, hobbyists, industry reps and government to be held latter in the year. The above is still a dramatic over simplification of the process but its about as detailed as i can deal with writing at the moment.

As far as Norms dismissal goes, Norm still has and always has had the support of all other industry and hobby reps sitting on OFMIG. Norm has been informed that he has been removed with the support of OFMIG(None of the industry reps were consulted) because he distributed confidential material, namely the risk assessment matrix tables and procedure. This led to OFMIG being inundated with emails pointing out the issues and errors in the current process. It was not made clear to any of us that these materials were considered confidential and frankly we would have objected if it were made clear. I have distributed the same material to many interested parties myself in the past and even provided Ornamental Fish International (OFI) copies for the comments and input. I dont see how we can be truly representative if we are unable to discuss and distribute the materials that we discuss behind the closed OFMIG doors. Without such discussion we are only offering our own individual opinions that may or may not be representative of the greater hobby and industry. This is the technicality they have hung Norm out to dry on.

In all probability Norm has been kicked out because he has ruffled too many feathers. Norm submitted to rather blunt letter giving his opinions to their proposed control options for noxious species last December which has left several government representatives offended. To all who know Norm he calls a spade a spade and perhaps lacks the tact and finesse that is sometimes required when trying to make your point to government. However as i have stated to OFMIG, Norms knowledge on the species in question is second to none, he has a detailed chronicle of the history of ornamental fish regulation in Australia and represents the mad and almost crazy passion that we all share as aquarium hobbyists. Norm has been kicked off for being Norm which is a little too close to reality and not close enough to the utopian world of regulations that would otherwise be imposed upon us if it were not for our collective voices of opposition.

Given the numbers on OFMIG are currently around 15 government departmental representatives(both state and federal) and 5 industry/ hobby reps we cannot afford to loose Norm from the table. I have lobbied OFMIG from within pointing out Norm is more valuable participating in the process than trying to derail it from the outside but to date i have had no luck. Ultimately after 5 years of ensuring the species of most concern to hobby and trade were kept on the back burner we are now reaching judgement day. The meetings and discussions of both OFMIG and the technical working group over the next 12-18 months will determine the fate of many south and central american cichlids in addition to the oddities and tank busters predators we all love. I for one would prefer Norm by my side when tackling some of the issues that lye ahead.

Hope this sheds a little more light on the background to Norms current situation and provides a more accurate update of where the process is to date.

Regards

Anthony Ramsey

Reef, River and Reptile

322a Pacific Hwy,

Hornsby, NSW 2077

02 94765675

P.S

Both Norm and I are still members of the NSW ornamental consultancy group chaired by Industry and Investment NSW (the old DPI/Fisheries). Even once a decision is made at the federal OFMIG level NSW is required to consult with its own residents. Essentially we get a second bite at the cherry to try and overturn in silly decisions OFMIG may make. Remember despite the fact OFMIG have declared Koi federally noxious both NSW and WA are thumbing the feds and continuing to allow possession, trade and sale. So despite federal decisions all may not be lost. NSW have still yet to even implement Traunche 1 ans 2 of the Noxious list.

[ctaylor]

Thanks Anthony, is great to get an accurate update on the situation. Both your time and efforts related to OFMIG and typing this up are greatly appreciated by us all.

Keep us updated mate.

[Rod54]

Where can I view..."THE GREY LIST"

or is it secret???

[shelly]

Where can I view..."THE GREY LIST"

or is it secret???

I was thinking the same thing.

Does anyone know where it can be veiwed???

[pride]

try here page 35

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pd...n-Australia.pdf

[Frenzy]

I've sent emails now.

What else can we do?

[Adam_J]

Quick question... "Mosquito fish"... they are already in australia right?

i call them gudgeons... little buggers breed in the billions...and keep my fish well fed.

[Link2Hell]

Hi Adam

mosquito fish are Gambusia a livebearer like a Guppy that the government introduced

many yrs ago to control mosquitos

Gudgeons are natives

Chris

[shelly]

Ok, After reading all that and reviewing the Grey list, i must pose the questions What is the issue? Isn't it about time we started caring about our ecosystem?

I love my fish as i know u all do too. I would never release a Ferrel fish into our waters but i would sell a fish to a person that i don't know if they have any trepidations about "setting it free".

I go freshwater fishing a fair bit and 95% of the time i find Gambusia. I have seen cichlids (i think it was an oscar) Carp, Goldfish coloured and plain silver all in my local waterways. During the warmer months i have no doubts that American chiclids can and are breeding in our water ways. They are so good at defending their young that there would be very little in the way of predators to stop them, they are able to adjust to a wide variety of water parameters and it won't be long till they evolve to handle our winters.

Convicts are a prime example. They are able to fight off fish much larger than itself and even turtles and are able to survive our winters.

IMO i think the Ferrel species list needs a major reveiw and it is about time we did it. It is like ornamental fish has slipped through every responsible eco management plan for a long time. And WHY? I believe that the aquarium trade = big $$$$$ and with government dollars usually beats sense.

We must always remember that our ecosystem is the most invaluable thing we own. It is delicate and need to be looked after, allowing any living thing into the country is putting our ecosystem at risk. I want my kids to see thriving natural, native ecosystems, I hold this dream in a lot higher regard than seeing my kids breed electic yellows and bristlenose. We have awesome native fish in Australia that are much more popular overseas than here, I believe that we should be keeping natives and the Grey lists actions will help point us in this direction.

It is obvious to everyone that bringing ferrel animals and plants into the country is not a good idea but we are all fine with fish?????It is a hypocritical veiw that needs adjusting b4 its to late(if it isn't already, but that is another discussion).

I believe that the noxious list should be expanded to include all livebearers, bettas, all cold water fish and most american ciclids to start with.(all of which i currently keep)

The allowable import list need to be culled even further. This will without doubt increase the value of the stock in Australia atm and valuable fish tend to be sold rather than set free.

Without seeing the letter that was taken as offensive and not knowing Norm personally it is impossible to say who is right and wrong in the political side of this issue, but as far as the planned review of our hobby i think its time to suck it up for the greater good.

Ok so if u read all this let me know what u think, I would love to be wrong about this but I can't see reasonable alternatives.

Natives are the future

[aussiem]

What about trout redfin etc(freshwater fishing) redfin is very much a predator