domross Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Hi, Recently purchased 3 gold occy's from LFS with shells, 1 male 2 female. I put them in and the 2 females were out of their shells in a matter of minutes and the male about half an hour later. 1 of the females and the other male seem to be bonding pretty well hanging out the front of their shells. All their shells are quite close to each other in the front of the tank in the middle of my rock setup. The problem I have is the other female not hanging out with the male is a bit adventurous and has left the safety of her shell to explore the tank, in the mean time she's been chased (and her fin nipped) by my big electric blue; if I wasn't present to scare him off I don't know if she'd still be with me. I'm concerned that she doesn't like her shell and is going in search of a new home, but in the mean time she's getting quite hassled and stressed out. Is there anything I can do to entice her back to her shell or should I buy some new shells for them all and see which they prefer? Will the occy's survive in a display tank with a wide variety of Tangs/Malawi; I've got quite an assortment all about 6-7cm whilse the occys are maybe 1-2cm max? I've stopped one potential disaster with the electric blue, will they likely become food because they're too small? I'd hate for them to become fish food as they seem like awesome little fish with such great character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcloughlin2 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Expensive food food they will be. I'd get them out of there NOW unless you want to loose them. I have had occelatus killed by baby malawi cichlids, let alone sub adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domross Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 I woke up thinking I'd find the worst; I couldn't find any of the 3 outside their sells. To my surpise one of them was in its shell and wasn't coming out; the male was stuck in my wier looking pretty scared, managed to get him out and to the safety of a shell (where he also isn't moving from) and the third (more adventurous one is (STILL) exploring and hiding out in the rocks. As much as I love them they simply look too stressed. I'll take them to LFS and see if they'll care for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianniz Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 hmm i know i like to mix them up myself but i'm definitely not that game! electric blues are carnivors and it will eat most things that fits in its mouth. plus the shells are a good place for them to hang out and breed but it's not going to protect them for long as they still need to come out for a feed. if you can just buy a small 2footer species tank as the entertainment you get from those occies will be well worth $100 or so for the setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domross Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Exactly what I'm going to do. Lfs is minding them for me in the mean time. Would be great if I could get them to breed. Are they hard breeders or do they go like rabbits? 2 females to 1 male atleast the odds are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdo. Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I was told its better to keep them in pairs... Is this so? Also, how many do you reckon you could get away with in a two-footer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Occies are not a community fish.....Best in a species only tank Pair is ok Male with several females can work in a larger tank.....but fry will be at greater risk than in a pair I'd put Male and 2 females in a 2 footer until male settles with one of the females....I'd then remove and keep her in another tank or partitioned away from "the pair" so she doesn't get a chance to eat fry. Once a pair has bonded they will breed like rabbits.....problems occur when removing the largest fry....male can get snakey and give female a hiding....so having an extra female is a good idea I provide a pile of rocks at one end of the tank with plenty of places for female to hide in....place shells at the other end Keeping occies can be pretty boring 90% of the time.....but the other 10% can be absolute fireworks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Two footer is too small. Occies are harem spawners, but it is the male that chooses individuals and the total number. That means you may have two girls and a boy, but that doesn’t mean they will bond. And the fish that isn't accepted by the male, unless she can get away from him, will in all likelihood be killed. Three footer would be minimum but then only if shells are at one end of tank allowing spare wheel to get at least three foot from the male if she needs to. You need a tank sized to fit their character not their size as this latter part is miss leading. It has also been my experience that no matter how strong a bonding seems from our human perspective, sooner or later they will have a falling out and the bond broken - and there will be no love lost - if she cant' get far enough away she will be killed. If kept properly (I used a tank 4’8” in a breeding community) they are interesting all the time, and if something goes wrong there are no deaths (because the tank is big enough) so no fireworks. Electric blues are not only carnivores they are piscivorus = eat fish for a living. Aquarium keeping is an information hobby, do your research before you buy the fish and not after you start having trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 "By the way, love your tank and love reading your suggestions and honest replies you post." "There are plenty of "enthusiasts" in the hobby, but few with both passion AND intelligence." "Craig is the rightest" "Thank you CT, i think you explained it better than i could ever have done." hahaha i like that well done crage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you must know your stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdo. Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Aquarium keeping is an information hobby, do your research before you buy the fish and not after you start having trouble It is also very opinion based and experiences can differ greatly from one person to another, and information can sometimes be conflicting and this is why its important to research a number of sources. However, in my opinion, you can also only do so much reading and research and I believe some things can only be learnt from trying them yourself, within reason of course. So long as the necessary precautions are made (such as keeping a spare holding tank or, as in domross' case, being able to run any fish in danger up to a LFS for temporary safe-keeping) most nasty endings can be avoided and you also learn a lot in the process. You would miss out on too many rewarding experiences if you simply obeyed everything everyone said! In regards to the Gold Occy's: perhaps 2ft is not the most "ideal" size tank but I have heard many a person, including LFS employees, say this is sufficient space for them. This is obviously dependant however on various factors, such as if there are enough hiding spaces and shells, how the tank is arranged and how many fish you intend to keep in the tank. Again, there will always be different opions on this, but going from my experiences and research, it is certainly doable. Keep us posted as to which way you decide to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 "By the way, love your tank and love reading your suggestions and honest replies you post." "There are plenty of "enthusiasts" in the hobby, but few with both passion AND intelligence." "Craig is the rightest" "Thank you CT, i think you explained it better than i could ever have done." hahaha i like that well done crage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you must know your stuff Foti, I have had fish since my age was in single figures, my first word was "shish" in fact. I'm now 46. I know what I know, but there is certainly plenty of information that I'd be ignorant of. I thank you for your compliment . I attached those comments because over the years of posting on ACE I have at times copped flack more often than compliments and it is nice to remind myself of the nice things that have been said and forget the crap. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Aquarium keeping is an information hobby, do your research before you buy the fish and not after you start having trouble It is also very opinion based and experiences can differ greatly from one person to another, and information can sometimes be conflicting and this is why its important to research a number of sources. However, in my opinion, you can also only do so much reading and research and I believe some things can only be learnt from trying them yourself, within reason of course. So long as the necessary precautions are made (such as keeping a spare holding tank or, as in domross' case, being able to run any fish in danger up to a LFS for temporary safe-keeping) most nasty endings can be avoided and you also learn a lot in the process. You would miss out on too many rewarding experiences if you simply obeyed everything everyone said! In regards to the Gold Occy's: perhaps 2ft is not the most "ideal" size tank but I have heard many a person, including LFS employees, say this is sufficient space for them. This is obviously dependant however on various factors, such as if there are enough hiding spaces and shells, how the tank is arranged and how many fish you intend to keep in the tank. Again, there will always be different opions on this, but going from my experiences and research, it is certainly doable. Keep us posted as to which way you decide to go Information can be conflicting. That doesn’t mean one is right or wrong, but one way will most likely be better/more correct than another. The confusion come in because often people are not aware of all the facts or the facts they are aware of may not be “as correct” as they believe. Leading to a decision which could be better. Keeping fish is not an exact science, but there are better ways, and ways that can give a greater safety barrier should things go wrong. I have called this the Life Buffer Theory; “A tanks Life Buffer is determined by the number and quality of optimum decisions”, which some years ago I wrote a long-winded article about which is probably still floating about on ACE. I agree in your opinion that you can only do so much reading and research, but the opposite to this are people who do none, or have faulty/not as correct information and go and do what ever or purchase what ever. In regards to giving advice, it has been my long held opinion that advice that is given should be such that if followed success can be had by everyone. For example, it is possible to put 5 Tropheus in a three foot tank and have success by an experienced individual (where it could still go wrong with), it is more likely that this result in a lone fish left in the tank. So I certainly wouldn’t advocate doing this, though it can be done. However if I say purchase 15 T and put them into a 5 by 2 by 2, whoever follows this advice will be more likely to be met with success by anyone who tries it. How fish are kept in shops and how they spend their time in a private tank involves two different base motivations and strategies. The amount of bad advice I have heard from shops, stuff that was so off-track that the comments were “dead” wrong (pun intended), the fact a “LFS employees, say this is sufficient space for them” lends NO weight to the matter at all. I have breed hundreds and hundreds of occelatus, and the way I raise the young is different again from how they should/could be kept in a shop or how I keep them in a breeding situation. How you keep occelatus does depend on various factors, but two thing can be held as a constant – 1) the fish’s behaviour, 2) sooner or later they will very likely have a squabble, which in the wild would see the female go somewhere else. This is where the trouble comes in as if she can’t get far enough away she will be killed. So in the best interest in the fish, do you set the tank up with only the good times in mind or do you cater for the possibility of the negative side of these great little fish. Remember the wrong decision means a petty lose of money where as the fish pays the ultimate price. Let me say also, that this negative side of these fish are only a problem if damage is done and damage is done only if the non-dominate fish can’t get out of the line of fire. It is this very personality that makes this fish so worthwhile to be kept It is certainly doable to keep a few occelatus in a two foot tank, but remember that these shell dwellers are not multis where you can cater for their size. Occelatus I believe you cater for their behaviour traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Life is all about risk management.... No doubt a 4 footer is better accommodation for 3 occys than a 2 footer.....but that's a lot of tank for 3 small fish when some careful landscaping and regular inspections given their habits can keep the chances of a fatality in a smaller tank to a minimum. Given the start of this post I'd suggest 3 occys in a 2 footer have a much greater chance of prospering than they have in a 4 footer that is also full of mature Mbuna cichlids.... The problem is not so much taking a risk....we all do!.....it is taking an informed risk. ps....I'd still move out the spare female once the male(or female) makes a choice.... My favourite occy photos pssst...Don't tell them they've been in an 18 inch tank for 2 years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdo. Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Wow they look awesome Rod! How many have you got in that tank? Any chance of a full tank shot? I wouldnt mind some aquascaping inspiration thats all! Also, do you reckon you could get away with two pairs of occy's in a tank, would they stick to their partner or would that just cause too much aggression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod54 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 They are in a tank 230mm wide x230mm high x 450mm long.....It houses a bonded pair and their fry from time to time.... The tank is end on....short side to front not the normal long side...there is a reason for this The substrate is a very fine sand open at the front of the tank with smooth river rocks piled about 3 high in the rear Lighting is to the front of the tank(one end) only....so rear rocks are poorly lit Filter is a simple air driven box filter at the rear of the tank This set up works for me....given my limited space availability NOT an ideal set up to stick in 6 juvies to pick partners....but I've found it manageable for a pair I did try it with 2 females for a while but found that fry disappeared...so have now removed a female I wouldn't contemplate 2 pairs in this set up NOTE....I've done this with "Blue" and "Gold" occys.....and perhaps I've struck Good pairs This set up would not work for "Black" occys...they do need lots of space in my experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.