Noddy65 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hi all Ive just bought myself a house. Thats all well and good but the important thing is that it has a single garage that I can use as a fishroom (a double would have been better of course) I have a friend who is an airconditioner installer guy so he is going to do the electrics for me. There will be a central timed light switch. Power in the walls so theres no power boards or power cables on the ground anywhere. Ill get him to install a reverse cycle air conditioner at the same time for heating and cooling. Any suggestions on make/manufacterer? Ill insulate the walls with this: http://www.etherm.com.au/ Racking will almost certainly be pallete racking, hopefully three high (Im tall ) Some of the racks will be run off sumps, some off individual sponge filters. Id love ideas on streamlining the water change routine...Ive researched some semi auto water changers and they all look possible. Any other thoughts? Things you guys and girls have done that you wouldnt have done...and why? Any other ideas for streamlining maintenance? Things I have missed out on or things that I really cant live without? Things that are on YOUR wish list? Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscacara Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 ant really help sorry but was thinking of also setting up some tanks in the garage if I decided to try breeding at some stage so looking forward to the ideas others come up with for you. Unfortunately mine is a rental so no mods for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmowens Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 hey mate im an a/c tech. when buying your a/c you really get what you pay for. i would probably stick to maybe a daikin, mitsubishi or panasonic. it depends on how you want to run the system. scenario 1)- you wish to run the unit 24/7 set to say 25 degrees scenario 2)- you wish the unit to run for two hours on a timer, stay off for two hours, and cycle this way having the set temp a little higher. for scenario one you would definately need to be looking at purchasing an capacity controlled unit, (aka inverter). for scenario two you could also opt for an inverter or could choose the cheaper option of the standard unit. i would probably recommend buying the inverter unit so you can always change how you run the system. HTH Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Thanks Patrick Thats just the sort of info Im after Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 How expensive is that etherm stuff? Insulate the room properly and you will never need to cool it. My room never got above 30 and that was after a run of 38+ degree days. I am guessing you will be using the whole garage? Is it brick or timber/fibro? I filled the cavities in my room with polystyrene foam, just layer it in, or use normal bats. Probably only cost you $500 for the whole shed and roof. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmowens Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 i wasnt really thinking about using the ac for cooling. as josh said with sufficient insulation heating/cooling shouldnt be required in the warmer months. i was assuming you were going to be mainly using it for heating in the colder months. just remember about condensation. you might need to think about some sort of ventilation to keep humidity levels under control as ac on heating wont do anything for that. also if you are planning on running some air have a look at josh' web page. i stole his idea for running pvc and tapping in to run my two racks off my lp40. ( thanks josh ) Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 some notes and thoughts (quoting from other posts I've waffled onto here hefore) on electricity.... Q: how many power points? A: add up all the devices you can think of then add say 50%. You can never have too many and a spare socket on the other side of the room is not quite the same thing as one close enough to where you need it to be useful. I have three banks of 4-sockets and a double-socket for ordinary power. Plus two banks of double-sockets in the same circuit as the lights, inline with the timer. Plus two banks of double-sockets inline with the thermostat for heating. and.. .thought this was overkill but find I still need a few power boards. Q: how far up the wall? A: I have mine mounted just below the second level of my racks (around 70 cm I think) so I can reach them from the front of the tanks without too much difficulty. John Fleet has his mounted on the roof which is nice and safe but he needs a ladder to reach them. Think carefully about where powerpoints go relative to tanks and racks. It totally sucks to have a wasted powerboard you can't get to. Q: did I use splash proof power points? A: have you seen the price on them? No I didn't as there's no way I could justify the price. As the entire room is heated there doesn't seem to be the same sort of condensation problems that you get when heating just the tanks so I haven't had any indication that this has been a horrible mistake yet. John did use them and advised me to but his idea of acceptable cost parameters is different to mine. My room runs on it's own circuit with an earth leakage detector on the main board to ease my nervousness levels a bit. As they're quite cheap I'd recommend one qute strongly as a safety measure. I would have liked to pull two extra circuits across (one for the lights which are currently on their own sub-circuit within the room with they're own circuit breaker as they use lighter wiring but share the same line in from the powerboard as the rest of the system; and one for the "normal" stuff in my garage like roller door controllers etc which also share that lien in from the powerboard) but that would have involved lots of digging and money so I made do with the existing line. on waterchanges... Think about preconditioning water. I have a pair of 1000L tanks wrapped into the bubblewrap equivalent of that e-therm stuff for my tang/malawi water and some 150L tubs under one rack for the catty water. Water supplies are getting more and more unreliable so preconditioned, prewarmed, pretested water might be critical some day (nothing beats being able to safely perform a 90% waterchange). In my case I have 32mm plumbing from the tanks to my sumps so can refill after a water change *much* faster than I could with a hose. Think about where drainage water goes to and how quickly you can move it. I do waterchanges in to a tub then have a sump-pump that takes it up to the back yard. A bit inconvenient having the tub in the room and cleaning grot out of the tub but my neighbours would lynch me if I ran the water down the stormwater drain and they realised how much I use. For me the limiting factor in water changes is how quickly I can clear the waste water so will probably be reworking my drainage some day. on central/separate filtration systems.. my vote is if at all possible to have both. Being able to switch individual tanks in/out of a system is extremely useful. I also have some pairs of tanks I can take out of the system and cycle water between just the two. eg L' catties in one tank sharing water with bristlenose in another. It spreads and reduces your filter-shock risks (a factor with wood-munching catties that can clog a filter quickly), increases current (also good for most catties) and helps spread the pheremones when love is in the air/water. and have a rack of tiny tanks on air filters for tiny, tiny stuff like your shelly and rainbow babies but I wish I also had a rack of tiny tanks on system filtration (like Grant Parkes has) because the growth rates achievable are far higher than standalone tanks (yeah I know that's contentious but I find it to be so) I have an oversized inverter reverse cycle unit because I got it cheaply in a closing down sale. It keeps the room nice and warm in winter and beautifully cool in summer (just ignore that crap from Josh about not needing cooling.... it's not for the fish it's for you!!) but have a suspicion I might have been better off with a smaller unit that stayed on more of the time as there are fairly big temp fluctuations with this unit as it cycles on/off through the day. The fish don't care but I do :-) on painting that fishroom. When you think you've put enough coats on ... put another couple:-) and include some mould killing coats in the mix. You'll never get to the walls once all the racks and tanks go in so all the protection they can get before hand is important. on airlines. Use the least amount of airlien tubing as possible. Run bigger conduit aroudn so that airline drops are just short lengths. I have a loop of 19mm poly pipe around the ceiling and airline drops (some quite long) from there and will get around to hooking in a lower loop some day. Some people prefer pvc pressure pipe to poly as pvc stays nice and straight and neat whereas poly needs lots of bracketing to keep it looking neat. Conversely poly is much easier to add airlines when and where you need 'em using plain ordinary inline dripper fittings whereas pvc takes much more effort and planning. As I never plan poly is the go for me :-) on ventilation Add some. I have a ventilation fan high up on one ceiling that runs on a timer so it exhausts air at particular times (the schedule varies throughout the year) and is fairly well sealed the rest of the time. on the amenities Don't forget the lounge, beanbag, bar fridge, telly :-) Nice squishy flooring is also important. I have flooring made of interlocking foam-rubber squares (the stuff like rubber things sold in camping stores and such). Cheap, soft underfoot, can tolerate flooding, can be removed easily if neccessary. I also have marine carpet-tiles that I lay over the squishy rubber from time to time (usually a few months on then I flood the place and they go out to dry and spend a few months off, then repeat from step 1) on lighting I effectively have two complete sets of lighting - flouro tubes up the centre of the room capable of lighting the place effectively and efficiently, used primarily when working in there - plus enough over-tank lighting so I can turn the room lights off and still have good lighting on the fish (good for me probably too bright for them but it's all about me...) being able to switch pretty much any single light individually gives the ability to graduate right through from hospital-grade floodlighting through to cutey-gettin-a-tour-of-the-fishroom-grade lighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Wow...thanks Laurie Theres lots of really excellent points there.... Im heading into the planning on paper phase in the next two weeks. Ive seen Grants fry sump system and its also won me over...I just need to figure out how to do it for tangs, malawis, rainbows and apistos I need to get my head around how to isolate tanks when using a sump with racks but it does sound like a great and potentially very useful feature. Didnt even think of soft flooring underneath my feet Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I need to get my head around how to isolate tanks when using a sump with racks but it does sound like a great and potentially very useful feature. they make those special doovey things to put in the water inlet, called *taps* I think that just coincidentally happen to be useful for that (no idea what they're really supposed to be for though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 I need to get my head around how to isolate tanks when using a sump with racks but it does sound like a great and potentially very useful feature. they make those special doovey things to put in the water inlet, called *taps* I think that just coincidentally happen to be useful for that (no idea what they're really supposed to be for though) What will they think of next....taps....of all things I assume you just need a 'tap' on the outflow and inflow pipes and Bobs your uncle? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I assume you just need a 'tap' on the outflow and inflow pipes and Bobs your uncle? just the inlet. if water stops flowing in it'll automagically stop flowing out. a fishy translation of newton's first law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Contracts have been signed...look likes its all going ahead. Did some calls today re the etherm insulation...nearly had a heart attack...the garage will cost around $1000 to insulate....Ill have to find something else I think... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmowens Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 if you look into it or know somebody that does insulation i think that you will find that there is currently a federqal rebate of up to $1600 for home insulation. not sure on the conditions as such but it my be worth a looksie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 if you look into it or know somebody that does insulation i think that you will find that there is currently a federqal rebate of up to $1600 for home insulation. not sure on the conditions as such but it my be worth a looksie... Hmmm...didnt think of that...the house probably needs to be insulated anyway and since the garage is part of the house? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmowens Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 my thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Heres the rack layout Im running with at the moment. There will also be natives in the mix...Im looking to get the garage to that stage in about a year, money permitting. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Wow that is awesome! Hope to see the pics when you get it up and running. We are slowly converting one of our sheds to a fish room - got to get the insulation sorted shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Have you thought about having an open plan? The whole garage would feel more spacious. You could see every tank from anywhere in the room. it's easier to move from tank to tank. You could have a larger work bench. I had a tank set up where I was always walking around a tank, and it got a bit annoying. This might work...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobcas Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Wow you get to use the whole garage..... Mine is confined to a room along the back wall as the Minister for Domestic Affairs rightly claimed we needed the rest of the space for tools, toys, pool equip etc etc. I had a small win as she also insanely thought we should get a car in the garage as well. Both designs look great and I imagine it's personal choice, but I must add with that much space, where in the plan is the TV / Stereo / Fridge / Home Brew / Lounge and PC????? Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Not a bad idea African...I suppose I was trying to cram as many tanks into a given area...but I do like the idea of a more 'open plan' ...hmmmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Hey, Do you have any idea what tank/rack sizes you will be using? 6x2s divided or other? I like the African open plan for the spacious feel. You could also store water for changes under the work bench which would be easy enough to access for all tanks. It is probably easier to manage filtration also. Do you know how many sumps you will be running? Have you considered a DIY water change system? like this one ---> click Could be handy. Would love to see some pics as its coming together if you get a chance Cheers Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 Theres going to be a mix of 2 x 1 x 1 for the apistos, 3 x 2 x 20" high, 2 x 18 x 12" high right up to a couple of 6 x 2 x 20" high. The killis will be in small tanks 12 x 8 x 8 " The smaller tanks will be run off air and individaul sponges...the larger tanks off sumps (Ive got some older tanks already that Ill be converting to sumps). It will probably have one sump per rack. Theres a small carport attached which will be have the water change barrels and theres a much larger rainwater tank just outside that will be great for the soft, acidic water fish. Im still working out the details. Im not really sure yet what sizes the pallet racking shelves come in (length I mean) and what actual useable length that will give me but all thsoe details will be worked out as I get closer. Ive looked at many auto water designs and am trying to get my head around them...the sumps will be easy as Ill just do it through the sump but still working on the smaller tanks. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 If your water change tank outside was elevated higher than the tanks you could just run a pipe around the perimetre of the room with taps on it for each tank. You would still have to syphon each individual tank though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy65 Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ok...Ive found a local supplier who is selling second hand fibreglass batt for pretty cheap, so Ill use a double layer of that between the wall frame and between the frame on the roof. However I still need to come up with something that I can line the internal walls with. I was thinking cement sheeting for the walls (painted of course) but Im not sure what Ill use to line the ceiling and keep the batts insulation in place. Cement sheeting will be really heavy for me to hold and nail into place up under the roof so I was thinking of just using sarking?....any ideas anyone? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foti Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Ok...Ive found a local supplier who is selling second hand fibreglass batt for pretty cheap, so Ill use a double layer of that between the wall frame and between the frame on the roof. However I still need to come up with something that I can line the internal walls with. I was thinking cement sheeting for the walls (painted of course) but Im not sure what Ill use to line the ceiling and keep the batts insulation in place. Cement sheeting will be really heavy for me to hold and nail into place up under the roof so I was thinking of just using sarking?....any ideas anyone? Mike you can use plaster board as long aslong as it is painted ? (use oil based paint) or (anti mould wash able paint) if you are not going to have vents in the room. plaster board will not damige from abit of mold on the celing it would be a problem if it was on the wall and water was resting on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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