gswalker Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 What are the pros and cons of each water type does anyone care to enlighten me? also which hobby is bigger in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I don't know about which hobby is bigger in Australia, however after the release of Finding Nemo, the sale of Marines has skyrocketed. There were a few articles about it last year in the newspapers and also speaking to a friend who owns an aquarium he agrees the sale of marines has picked up. I've got a few opinions but it could turn into one of those big forum arguments so lets just say for Pros and Cons depending on the fish you keep, costs will vary significantly and depending how organised you are. Perhaps I could PM you on my thoughts. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gswalker Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 yep PM away all i have been told is salt water are the best for colour and fresh (cichlids) are better for personality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gutty Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 however after the release of Finding Nemo, the sale of Marines has skyrocketed. Sorry to hijack.......but... I'm in the LFS on saturday and a lady walked in with her daughter. Well, the little girl wanted a Nemo. Mum asks the sales assistant, The sales guy says, "yeah, we can do you a nemo setup" and points to the small curved front acrylic complete setup tank thingy. It must have been about 20liters tops i reckon. I just about burst out laughing when the lady said, "have you got one about half that size ?" Anyway, back on topic..... All i know about saltwater is what is in Paul Talbots marine video. Looks like alot of work and money for not much more eye candy to me. I've recently set up 3 tanks for various friends, all of them straight away wanted "saltwater, not gold fish"............hahahahaha At first one of them didn't believe me that cichlids were fresh water........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I would estimate that Freshwater fish keeping would account for a about 90% of the market. Saltwater would be no more than 10%. A significant portion of the freshwater market would be tropicals, as apposed to coldwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 The only SW tank I have ever maintained is a bait tank at our house up the coast BUT, I must just point out that THE MOST personable fish I have ever interacted with was a mates Volitan Lionfish. It easily out-played any Oscar/Red-Devil or any other cichlid i have ever come accross. However, the fact it could possibly kill you is always something to consider... Then again if your fish jumped out and you slipped on it and hit your head you could die also Or you could get electricuted by faulty heaters or filters But as we all know, the chances are slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Likewise Matt I'm visiting a cousin in Canberra shortly and going to help him setup a tank amongst other things. When I asked him what fish he wanted....the first word was "Nemo." Gswalker: I'll send ya a PM later tonight. As for personality..... everything has its own personality or behaviour, it depends what you're looking for. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gutty Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Then again if your fish jumped out and you slipped on it and hit your head you could die also Or you could get electricuted by faulty heaters or filters But as we all know, the chances are slim Us fish keepers really do live life on the edge.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I guess that freshwater tanks would probably account for more than 90%. The only saltwater tanks I see are in the front windows of chinese restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benno Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 It seems that every time i walk into my lfs these days everyone is asking how to care for a clown fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbuna Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 i must admit after setting up a nano reef that S/W are just as (if not more!) addictive as cichlids. I think is something that every aquariust has got to try at least once. the first difference i noticed was the price. saltwater (especially reef) tanks cost alot more to run because of lighting salt etc. HTH Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.apps Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 yeah, i work in a "local pet shop" with a fair few tanks and we are always getting people wanting "nemo" fish but the only saltwater fishys we keep are seahorses! the boss says that people dont want a small tank to cost them $2000 dollars not including fish. if i was buying one Id look around get the best deals and prices etc... ohhh and ask lots of q's a you know how interested they are in your bussiness that way! (well thats what i do)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticmalamute Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I'd say that marine take up more like 70-80% of the industry, I'ts getting so much cheaper to run a marine tank. You can run a standard 3 foot fish only tank with a simple undergravel filter, one queen turbo skimmer and a powerhead to run it, Minus the price of the tank lets say; the queen skimmer retails for $80, a powerhead to run it $100, undergravel filter $20, coral sand $70=25kg and 4kg of salt for $30 (does 120L of water) Add it up and viloa you have the making of a fish only marine tank for only $300 (considering you already have the tank of course) If your tank is say a 2x2x2 a backpack skilter would do that job easily and costs around $320 for a quality product. If you want to go into corals etc it can get quite costly, upward of $500 for a good quality MH, extra filtration, better skimmer, all of your products (strontium etc) globes etc etc. People are discovering that despite the initail cost, its not "hard" to set up a marine tank, it just takes a little more work each week, fortunatly its well worth the effort. If you want a marine fish with character, nothing will beat Triggers. Undluated Triggers for example are a compact, robust little fish with alot of fire, little buggers will have a good chomp at your finger if given the oportunity and are quite amusing to watch chase down a feeder fish and rip them to shreds. They also become quite the pet, being able to be hand fed and interact with you in an interesting fashion. Understandably they attract alot of teenage male attention But if "nemo" is more your style and a big tank isnt your thing then a small Jebo tank with all kits, heater and salt etc added cost only about $380 not something overly priced IMO. Perfect tanks for a couple of ocellaris or a pair of zebra snout seahorses. Actually, talking about seahorses, D.Apps - Just out of curiosity, are the ones your boss get in WC or CB?? Its disheartening when people pay out the dough for a horse and arent informed of their special needs, obviously CB are alot hardier and are already trained to frozen mysis, but people just dont get the idea that they need to be fed numerous times a day, are slow eaters and need little current and VERY docile tankmates (starfish and the like) With WC its VERY hard to train them to eat frozen foods, if your not prepared to raise your own live foods for them (NOT BS) then DON'T consider getting a WC. People also arent told that brine shrimp have no nutritional value whatsoever for horses, even though they eat they will starve themselves to death, a better food is mysis (hint to everyone, stock up now, there is a shortage of Hikari mysis about to start) or another food to feed them is plankton, however horses tend to dislike the tough shell of the plankton. Gosh, ive been babbling again Well, all in all, Marine are getting more popular, they arent as difficult/hard to come by/expensive as it used to be, like c'mon, you can get a marine fish for as little as $10!! But still the good ole goldfish holds the highest rank for popularity, then your average 'tropicals' followed by Americans THEN Africans coming up the rear. Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 THEN Africans coming up the rear. Apart from being a double entendre that quote makes me wonder. If Americans are sold in shops more often than africans, where are all the American keepers? I know they are out there, but looking at the number of african keepers on the SCP and the NSWCS in general (and the fact that you can only keep pairs of americans in may cases), I would have thought sales of africans would have been higher than americans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 "Gosh, ive been babbling again Well, all in all, Marine are getting more popular, they arent as difficult/hard to come by/expensive as it used to be, like c'mon, you can get a marine fish for as little as $10!! But still the good ole goldfish holds the highest rank for popularity, then your average 'tropicals' followed by Americans THEN Africans coming up the rear." Nikki, Where do you get your figures from ? Africans taking up the rear of field !!! Marines taking up 70% of the market !!! Goldfish most popular !!! Cmon get real. Some of the newcomers here might actually believe that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticmalamute Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 They ARE out there Andy, alot of people come into my work enquiring about Americans alot more than Africans (i personally dont see why) Plus alot of my fishy friends are into their Americans and dont see the attraction in my pretty Africans. Im guessing it's a teenage thing, alot more guys are getting into the aggro Americans, they want BIG fish that they can feed other fish to I dont know why there arent as many American keepers here on the scp letting themselves be known about, could be that in Sydney it's a whole different kettle of fish? But here there is alot higher demand of Americans than Africans, im going to go out on a ledge and say that the reason we have more American keepers here is that they are cheaper for shops to bring in (wholesale they are cheap as chips) thus they sell as an interesting fish at a low price??? Again, not sure of the reason behind it, but ive noticed Americans are dominated by young male owners, while the older customers and middle aged women are into the Africans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaticmalamute Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Nikki, Where do you get your figures from ? Africans taking up the rear of field !!! Marines taking up 70% of the market !!! Goldfish most popular !!! Cmon get real. Some of the newcomers here might actually believe that nonsense. Politeness dear I happen to work at ONE of the leading marine/reptile specialist shops on the Central Coast, its my PERSONAL observations from customers/sales/competition. Ok so my guesstimate of percentage might be a little off, but going by an average day of sales, close to $600 of it is marine sales, and about $200-$300 is spent on freshwater (goldfish being the most popular) HOWEVER we do get weeks/months with low marine sales, giving the impression that only 50-60% of the population on the CC are marine keepers ok? Its hard to evaluate the whole population of the CC, sometimes you get a week of high marine sales while the next you get alot of freshwater sales, its a very irratical buisness so understandably my guess of percentages is granted to be off. No need whatsoever to label my personal evaluation as nonsence. Anyway, what does it matter to the newcomers? this is after all a cichlid site, hardly a thing to do with marine, they are here to learn about FW fish and the fact that alot of people keep marine is totally irrelevant to them IMO. No one has to take my words seriously, people are smart enough to do their research and make their own decisions.... i hope Im not here to flare tempers, i just want to voice my opinion, so what if people dont agree with me, life's like that *shrugs* Anyhow, may i ask your reasons why you think my opinions are so far out? do you care to share your opinions on the marine status? Granted i work at a specialist store thus we get more marine customers, wonder why my opinion was that alot of people are into marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksta Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Being in the CC/Newcastle area also opens up the possibility of people keeping marine tanks because they live ON the ocean. They could catch an interesting fish and tank it for a while. And they can get water change water from their backyward in alot of cases. My dad lives up there and I know numerous people who keep marines and use the beach as a source of clean SW for tank maintenance etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searlesy Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 I keep both freshwater and marine, and I must say, that once up and running, saltwater is a lot less work. Marine is very expensive to set up, as even though you might compare it to a well lit planted aquarium, you still need to buy boxes of live rock at about $200 per 15-20kg, and a skimmer at $500 plus, although you can always DIY a skimmer if you are this way inclined. Modern reef tanks dont have any mechanical filtration, so cleaning and changing the media is not an issue as it is in FW setups, skimmer cleaning can be done once a week, and takes only minutes, and water changes are the same as for a FW setup, and if you can collect your own seawater, cost about the same. Although I have seen some fantastic looking cichlids colourwise, they dont compare to the amazing bright vivid colours of marine fish and corals. My reef tank is packed with beautiful colours, purples, reds, pinks, greens, bright yellows, vivid blues, and also has an amazing biodiversity of life. I also think that marine fish can have fantastic personalities, just as much as FW fish, in both FW and SW there are both boring and interesting characters. Having said that, I still love the serenity of my planted tropical tank, the boisterous oscar tank, and my brackish native tank. Just as an idea, I will compare my 5ft 500 litre reef tank to a planted tropical tank cost wise. My tank is 28 inches tall, and for a good planted tank, the 150w MH that I have on certainly wouldnt be overkill. All items are necessary for both unless otherwise indicated Tank about $500 Stand and hood about $400 MH lighting $600 Return pump $150 Circulation pumps (marine tank about $200, FW about $100) Sump $100 Bioballs (not necessary for marine) about $150 Heaters about $90 Skimmer (not necessary for FW) DIY about $80 Live rock 4-5 boxes, up to $1000. (SW only) CO2 system (FW only) (Not sure of the cost of this) RO water filter (good idea for both) $300 Obviously, the live rock is the big killer, although this could be brought down to about $130 a box if you look around. Corals are also quite expensive, as are marine fish, however, some of the prices people pay for cichlids, this isnt as much of an issue. The only additive I add to my tank is calcium via hydrated lime in the topup water, which is a negligable cost at $7 per 20kg, which also keeps alk in check. An LFS will tell you that you need to add a dozen different additives, at $20 a bottle, but in reality, you cant test for any of the things that they recommend you dose, so you cant possibly know how much to add, and will end up causing more problems than you fix. Regular water changes with natural sea water will keep most things (other than calcium in heavily stocked hard coral tanks) at good levels. So I dont think either is better than the other, but I certainly do like having a slice of South America, a slice of a native river, a slice of a tropical stream and a slice of the great barrier reef all in my house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbuna Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 g'day searlesy, do you have any frags for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searlesy Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 I dont have any SPS frags at the moment, but could probably organize some softies if you are interested mate. I would prefer to trade rather than sell though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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