milky Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hey There, i got some fish from a guy on petlink a few weeks ago, i bought them as msobo but when i went to pick them up 2 hours drive away i noticed they looked alot like salousi. i asked to see the parents and he took me over to a colony of what looked like salousi, i told him what i thought and he told me that the male got alot darker and more blotchy when he wanted to breed. He had some pics he had ripped off the net on the tanks of M. Msobo "magunga" and he said they were the same as them. since i had dragged my wife on a 2 hour road trip i didnt want it to be for no reason so i just took them hoping for the best. I have since bought some of mooks fry which caused me to think that the ones i got from petlink are dodgy i was convinced that i had been ripped off and that my fish were actually Ps. salousi. But now there is a guy selling the same fish, which he got from the same guy on petlink and M. msobo "Lundo island" aka heteropictus.. My first question is, are M. sp msobo heteropictus "Lundo island" available in oz?? and if so do you think these pics of my fry are or are not them? Thanks in advance for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicj Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 To me they look very much like saulosi You can see some of them just getting the colour change happening. and also here are some where you can actually see the bands if you look close especially the lighter ones in pic 1, 3 and 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbuna Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 hi mate, after seeing a couple of pictures on another forum i was convinced they were saulosi, but after seeing your juvies, it looks like you might have msobo heteropictus 'lundo' Pictures 3&5 show what looks like a young male/s starting to colour up that shows heaps of thin bars which is prominent in the lundo's but there seems to be others in the group that show saulosi like barring did the breeder also stock saulosi? maybe a few fry got into the msobo tank somehow? it does happen. he told me that the male got alot darker and more blotchy when he wanted to breed The lundo island variant does not get blotchy like msobo 'deep' and 'magunga' Im not saying these are or are not saulosi or msobo, these are just my observations from viewing these and a couple of other photos of the fish. I think it goes to show you cant 100% identify a species from photos alone. Maybe you could contact a breeder in the U.S, they may be able to shed some light on the situation. i guess the only way to tell is grow them out. Nice healthy juvies by the way cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Thanks for your help guys i have done a fair few searches and found plenty of pics and info i know what the M.Msobo "Lundo island" look like but not he juvies.. The fish with the tight barring in pics 3&5 is the only one in the tank which looks like that, he also has a faint horizontal line going down the middle of his body which makes him look a bit like a johanni. i bought these fish as msobo magunga for $6ea i think the price says it all if they really are msobo lundo island then i would have thought they would be more expensive. the breeder did have salousi as well and the 2 colonies looked very similar... Are M.Msobo "Lundo island" or M. Msobo Heteropictus even available in oz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Are M.Msobo "Lundo island" or M. Msobo Heteropictus even available in oz? Pretty sure I've seen adverts for heteropictus, I think MikeW (he's a sponsor) had some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeWs Fish Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I have Ps heteropictus, which is a different fish to the ones mentioned above. In my opinion someones been a bit sneaky and put ps demasoni juvies in with ps salousi juvies. all the blue ones look alot smaller and different shape to the yellow ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSWCS Representative Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I have Ps heteropictus, which is a different fish to the ones mentioned above. In my opinion someones been a bit sneaky and put ps demasoni juvies in with ps salousi juvies. all the blue ones look alot smaller and different shape to the yellow ones. Spot on Regardless of what they were sold for those are NOT saulosi males . Please tell us that the demasoni are yours and were in the tank prior to your obtaining the new fish?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 yeah sorry about that they are my demasoni and flavus fry in the tank aswell.. the fish in question are the orange fellas with the stripes. the males are yet to colour up but some have a slight blue sheen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stylez Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Possible it could be lombardoi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolften Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I want to get to the bottom of this also. These are some of the fish in question that I am selling as M. msobo "Lundo Island" The flash really makes the barring on the juvies stand out, as it is usually quite faint. Pics 1 & 2 are of the same dom male. wolften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somethingfishy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 looks like there has been some scamming going on to me. defiantly not msobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 looks like there has been some scamming going on to me. defiantly not msobo Msobo my #$ss! Sorry Michiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolften Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 looks like there has been some scamming going on to me. defiantly not msobo ...if nothing constructive can be said...put it... wolften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 looks like there has been some scamming going on to me. defiantly not msobo ...if nothing constructive can be said...put it... wolften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 wolften What were they bought as? Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolften Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 ...just plain msobo Josh, but the breeder is asking the person he bought them off, a LFS, if he knows what variant they are. He had a pic of a magunga msobo on the tank, clearly they are not magunga or deep tanzania. ...c'mon folks, need positive input here, not crap yup ...nup, sorry to be blunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 thank you for helping to sort this out wolften! hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 As Wolften states, clearly they're not Msobo 'magunga', as per the LFS that originally sold them. I absolutely agree. Msobo 'magunga' as far as I can tell is the more prevelant Msobo in the Oz. So breeders like "Somethingfishy" and others can attest the juvies start out as orange juvies, females stay orange, males slowly change from orange as they mature to a dull blue sheen over grey body with dark black fins. As with a lot of Mbuna species, only when the male Msobo 'magunga' is stimulated (females are present or establishing dominance), do they show that fantastic electric blue and jet black blotching. This is what my own Msobo 'magunga' did. Having said all that, would it be wild speculation on my part to assume that Metriaclima Msobo 'magunga' and Metriaclima "msobo heteropictus" are closely related??? i.e. they both a Msobo strain. I guess we wouldn't know unless we ask a real expert - anyone have Ad Koning's email? From the books I have, the male specimens of the msobo heteropictus show very similar colouration as Msobo 'magunga' and show barring - no argument there? But to me the barring itself reminds me of a Msobo 'magunga' in that it's uneven, blotchy looking and certainly not defined. I haven't seen any photo anywhere of a msobo heteropictus with defined solid barring the same as a Ps Saulosi or Demasoni (or indeed the same as many of Mbuna species available in Australia with barring). So here's my punch line . . . I would assume the msobo heteropictus males would evolve the same as Msobo 'magunga', i.e. as they mature from orange, they develop a dull blue sheen over grey body, with dark black fins, and when they're stimulated they show their prominant colouration . . . with barring. For me, the photos of the juvie males on this thread wouldn't quite be what I would have expected for a msobo of any strain. Just my thoughts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie123 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Here is some pics of my fish that I bought as Msobos. The males here colouring up are definately not Saulosi,if anything they resemble a Johanni except the dorsal fins are a real light irredescent blue colour with a black stripe along the middle of the dorsal fin. What does everyone think about what these actually are. Sorry about the quality of the pics but a craP camera and a dark shed so cant get them any better. I will see if I can get someone to drop over with a decent camera and take some proper pics to post up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hey thanks for posting those pics Aussie123, could help us all get to the bottom of this. Could they be Pseudotropheus Heteropictus? Have a look at a colony MikeW had: http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?show...hl=heteropictus Looking at your photos they could be Pseudotropheus Heteropictus, a different species to the Metriaclima sp. "msobo heteropictus". I dunno guys, maybe the Pseudotropheus Heteropictus is getting confused with the Metriaclima sp. "msobo heteropictus" within the hobby. I looked up one of Ad Konings books, it lists common trade names for every species and one the trade names for Metriaclima sp. "msobo heteropictus" was actually "Pseudotropheus Heteropictus". I believe what is happening is some breeders are mistakenly selling Pseudotropheus Heteropictus as Msobo heteropictus, believing them to be the Msobo strain when in fact the Msobo is completely different. Adding to the confusion is that it appears the Pseudotropheus Heteropictus females are also orange colouration, the same as the females of Metriaclima sp. "msobo heteropictus" dipicted on the Net and in Ad Koning's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somethingfishy Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 if you ask me they still look like a cross ( i know that no one wants to hear that about there fish but if they are and they get out these are the things that ruin this hobby) to me they resemble a salousi X johanni, i seen some of these floating around about 2 years ago and i was one of the people who got stung with them. here is a pic of my msobo this is just my personal opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcloughlin2 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 First pictures appear to be a cross of some description. I'd hazzard a guess at salousi x interruptus. They are definantely not a pure fish - they are too inconsistant with barring. One fish has vertical, the next has vertical and horizontal. The pictures posted by aussie appear to be Melanochromis interruptus. Not very nice ones but they look very similar to most I've seen. Just a quick note - Melanochromis johanni look almost identical to Maingano's. It's interruptus that have the checkerboard patterning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolften Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 ...well to each his own...but I have been offered a real expert's opinion. The MAN himself. All I need is for someone with a good camera and lense, to take a close up of my fish AND of the parents. The parents are located near Caboolture, and I would have to ask pemission from the owner of the parents first, which I'm sure would be OK... So...who's going to volunteer? I'll drive up there, but need a photographer, week ends only. wolften Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTR73 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I want to get to the bottom of this also. These are some of the fish in question that I am selling as M. msobo "Lundo Island" The flash really makes the barring on the juvies stand out, as it is usually quite faint. Pics 1 & 2 are of the same dom male. wolften ...well to each his own...but I have been offered a real expert's opinion. The MAN himself. All I need is for someone with a good camera and lense, to take a close up of my fish AND of the parents. The parents are located near Caboolture, and I would have to ask pemission from the owner of the parents first, which I'm sure would be OK... So...who's going to volunteer? I'll drive up there, but need a photographer, week ends only. wolften Who's the MAN himself? Are you referring to the breeder? So you reckon those photos are of Metriaclima sp. Msobo Heteropictus "Lundo Island"? Regarding the barring alone, all the photos of Msobo Heteropictus Lundo Island I've seen, the males have a greater number of bars that are thinner and not as solid as the barring on the pics of your own "Msobo Heteropictus Lundo Island". Sorry mate, but I don't agree with you on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolften Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 ..................................................... ...and the MAN is Ad Konings himself wolften ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: please watch what you post infuture no name calling is required, next time it may lead to a ban.. Have you heard from A. K. or are you still waiting for the reply, if you have can you show what was stated in his reply ?? they look like crosses to me as well but mbuna are not my expertise --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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