Left cainster filter off all day

[Robbo2232]

Hello friends,

Being the brain surgeon i am i have just realized that my ehiem pro 2 (don't know the model it the large one)

was off all day after doing a water change from 10am to 6pm ish i have a power head running a small sponge that around 1000lph

will i be ok?

am assuming all the bacteria in the canister i am assuming its dead or dying.

will there be enough bacteria in the sponge filter.

There are 15 8cm geos and 2 small angels in a 4x2x2 450lph

Thanks

[petshopdude]

least you found the problem, your face would have been heaps red if it took you a ciuple of days to figure out

i wouldn't be to stressed, i would keep an eye on the ammonia, also think maybe using seachem stability might be a good idea, but you tank is pretty big, and not heavily stocked, can't see to much happening

[oakes]

Yeh i agree it should repopulate quickly and you should not have any problems IMO. If the canister media has not been cleaned for some time it might be an idea to rinse it in tank water to reduce waste materials & the potential for an ammonia spike. Might also be wise to reduce the amount of feed for a few days.

[CThompson]

You can also take the outlet out of the tank and direct it into a bucket, turn the filter on and let it flush out the canister. Err on the side of caution and let lots of water pass through.

A canister off for more than an hour may be in trouble, so you will have to keep a close eye on ammonia levels. It would be a good idea to clean out the filter too as mentioned above, but still treat the bio mediai as though it contained live bacteria (clean in water from tank).

It is best to leave filter running during water changes as sooner or later you will forget to turn it back on again. It is human. So set your canister up so that there is no reason for it to be turned off during a water change.

[Robbo2232]

every seems to be going ok,

i will keep an eye on the ammonia levels.

Thanks for the ideas guys

[Symphy]

Hi Robbo2232

If it has been off all day I would definately clean-rinse it out with tank water & go from there.

Some of my Discus tanks with canisters are turned off for an hour during feeding time, I have no probs, they are very sensative fish.

Ammonia spike is the main issue, when a canister is turned off for a while then on.

Regards Symphy

[Rod54]

Just for the record....here's a link to information on bacterial films....breaks quite a few commonly held ideas

Bacterial films

Here's a quote

Quote:BIOCONVERSION

Let’s have a closer look at bioconversion first.

The nitrifying bacteria that do the conversion of ammonia etc. are found naturally in nature. They need a source of oxygen. In other words they adhere to a media as well as all surfaces and their food has to be brought to them.

Myth: The bacteria in the bioconverter will die if the pump is turned off.

Facts: This is false. The bacteria are very resilient. They will not die but become dormant. They are easily reactivated when conditions improve

.

Myth: The bacteria will be damaged if tap water is used to flush the filters.

Facts: Not True. Once the bacterial colonies have established themselves they form a biofilm. Biofilms are very tough and protective. Results of work conducted by Wirtanen and Mattila – Sandholm (1992b) and Mustapha and Liewen (1989) suggest that the age of the biofilm affects the resistance of micro organisms to chemicals.

A significant fact discovered by all scientists in the research papers on micro organisms I consulted with, indicate that mature biofilms were 150 – 3,000 times more resistant to free chlorine at pH 7 and 2 – 100 times more resistant to monochloramine than were unattached cells and new bacterial colonies.

Another interesting point – scientists have shown that much higher concentrations of antibiotics are needed to kill bacteria in biofilms, compared to free – living bacteria. Originally, it was assumed that the biofilm provided a physical barrier against the antibiotic; scientists thought that the antibiotic could not penetrate the biofilm. This may play a role in providing protection.

However, there is evidence that the nature of the colonies themselves provide protection. By growing in micro colonies, the outer cells protect the inner cells from the antibiotic that does penetrate the biofilm, leaving the inner cells to grow and multiply. This is fascinating, so let’s have a closer look at bacterial colonies – this is critical for our understanding of what is happening in our ponds let’s have a closer look at Biofilms.

[Robbo2232]

wow very interesting read!!!

thanks

[CThompson]

Just for the record....here's a link to information on bacterial films....breaks quite a few commonly held ideas

Bacterial films

Here's a quote

Quote:BIOCONVERSION

Let’s have a closer look at bioconversion first.

The nitrifying bacteria that do the conversion of ammonia etc. are found naturally in nature. They need a source of oxygen. In other words they adhere to a media as well as all surfaces and their food has to be brought to them.

Myth: The bacteria in the bioconverter will die if the pump is turned off.

Facts: This is false. The bacteria are very resilient. They will not die but become dormant. They are easily reactivated when conditions improve

.

Myth: The bacteria will be damaged if tap water is used to flush the filters.

Facts: Not True. Once the bacterial colonies have established themselves they form a biofilm. Biofilms are very tough and protective. Results of work conducted by Wirtanen and Mattila – Sandholm (1992b) and Mustapha and Liewen (1989) suggest that the age of the biofilm affects the resistance of micro organisms to chemicals.

A significant fact discovered by all scientists in the research papers on micro organisms I consulted with, indicate that mature biofilms were 150 – 3,000 times more resistant to free chlorine at pH 7 and 2 – 100 times more resistant to monochloramine than were unattached cells and new bacterial colonies.

Another interesting point – scientists have shown that much higher concentrations of antibiotics are needed to kill bacteria in biofilms, compared to free – living bacteria. Originally, it was assumed that the biofilm provided a physical barrier against the antibiotic; scientists thought that the antibiotic could not penetrate the biofilm. This may play a role in providing protection.

However, there is evidence that the nature of the colonies themselves provide protection. By growing in micro colonies, the outer cells protect the inner cells from the antibiotic that does penetrate the biofilm, leaving the inner cells to grow and multiply. This is fascinating, so let’s have a closer look at bacterial colonies – this is critical for our understanding of what is happening in our ponds let’s have a closer look at Biofilms.

Rob54,

that was very interesting and I have never read it before. I have partially taken some of the information on board, however, when a person such as in this case with Robbo2232 asks the question he asked, how can any answer which aims at being fully correct when not knowing such things as filter size, when last cleaned, bio load on tank or even what species are kept give any other answer than the "old rule of thumb" of an hour or so? What happens if I or others say “don’t worry about it just turn in back on –she’ll be right”, and knock-on detrimental effects kills the fish or they all come down with some stress related ailment?

Imagine a tank grossly over crowed with discus, with little filtration and a filter that hasn't been cleaned for a LONG time. The bacteria will take a hit with the filter being off, the article just says not as big a hit as I would have thought. Wat the article said that I found interesting was that the bacteria are a lot more resistant than I realise. However, once the filter is turned on, even after several hours of being off, there will be die off, and this will be pumped back into the tank when the filter is turned on. Do we want this in the tank?

I’m aware that the bacteria will go into a sort of hibernation should conditions not meet their requirements. But I would ask – in an enclosed container completely devoid of oxygen? Even in hibernation O2 is a requirement…? It is also my understanding that this ability to “hibernate” only works once (in close succession?) after which they die.

Even though our Africans are much hardier, I don't think we should treat them any differently just because they can take a hit, as even though they are less likely to die, they will still be stressed, and stress can lead to other issues.

It was very interesting too that they mention that our biomedia can be cleaned off in tap water. I think I will still stick with my fish tank water though.

Thankyou very much for the informative addition to this thread.

Craig

[CThompson]

A bioconverters is not working and will not work in only two circumstances, 1) when it is new and 2) when it has been destroyed by chemical or medication treatments to the pond or a complete lack of oxygen.

I just started reading the link to the full article, and the above is a cut and past. NB last point; "a complete lack of oxygen”. In an enclosed canister, with no water flow, the bacteria will be consuming O2, left long enough they will consume ALL O2. As fish keepers, particularly with a tank with a heavy fish load (=big bacterial colony) how do we know when they have crossed some point of no return? I think that is why the usual time frame of one hour is use as a guide as to how long is too long for a canister to be off.