Eheim pump question

[xzbit]

Hi All,

I just got a tank that has an in tank sump and the pump that it came with is a little old and I was considering getting a new Eheim pump. My question is, in all the pictures I've seen (Bearing in mind, I've never set up a tank with a sump before ), the outflow of the eheim pumps all faces upwards. Can they be effectively place the pump so that water flows forwards?

Also, what media should I put in the sump? I think from memory it has 3 chambers (being 3 compartments).

Thanks for all your help!!

Ray

[xzbit]

Can anyone help?

[Ash]

most submersible pumps work any way you point them, so long as they are under water of course

[xzbit]

most submersible pumps work any way you point them, so long as they are under water of course

OK sweet Ash! Thanks for the help !

What media should I use in the sump (considering its inside the tank)? Bio balls? or Japanese matting with ceramic tubes and those little ball things you get with the Eheim cannisters? or something else?

[Ash]

if the bioballs are submerged it would be a waste of space, so if they will be submerged perhaps maxtix or similar is the go

[CThompson]

Xzbit,

How about a photo so we can see what you are talking about. I’m not prepared to add comments till I know exactly what you have.

[xzbit]

Xzbit,

How about a photo so we can see what you are talking about. I’m not prepared to add comments till I know exactly what you have.

Yep, will take photos of it tonight and post it up! the tank is a little dirty! Just a little description - basically in the top back left corner a mini sump is glued to the tank with three chambers (its quite small around 50cm, each chamber is about 10/15cm each). But I'll post a pic up tomorrow anyway!

Thanks for the help guys !

[CThompson]

make sure you take close ups of relevant areas

[xzbit]

No probs! I forgot to add it around 50cm (L) x 30cm (H) x 10cm (W). But will take pics tonight! Thanks again for the help!

[xzbit]

Xzbit,

How about a photo so we can see what you are talking about. I’m not prepared to add comments till I know exactly what you have.

Here's what it looks like!! Its really dirty! Does anyone know how to clean the glass! Tanks are really expensive up here (NT)!

Thanks in advance !

[CThompson]

Ray,

Now that I have seen photos I can see why I couldn’t make sense of your written description. I can honestly say that I have never seen a tank set up like that. Viewed from side-on the shape is “truck-like”, with a hole going through the roof of the cab, and the tail gate left open. Water is meant to flow from left to right or right to left I’m not sure which. If the hole in the cab was through the floor I’d say the pump was meant to go in tank with the water being pumped through here. But with the hole through the cab roof this isn’t the obvious conclusion for water entry. And how would you add a strong fitting through this hole for the pump inlet to be fully secured?

The open top of the truck (filter outside wall) is a long way down from the reinforcing tank rails, this will limit the amount water you can put into the tank itself (filtration area cannot overflow). This implies to me that perhaps this in-tank filter was not constructed by someone who knew what they were doing.

I note that the first low partition on the right is higher than the last one on the left. This implies to me the water flow is meant to go right to left (front of truck to the back). Is it meant to be sucked through or pumped into??

I think also the water level for this whole filtration camber will be dictated by the height of the water in the tank, though by looking at the water staining on the side glass panel I’d say the water level has been left to be very low, in fact only just over this low right had partition-overflow. This implies that this has been the natural running water level. Staining on the inside glass wall of the tank itself reinforces this.

Unless someone who has personal experience with this type of system can say it works this way, I’d be more inclined to remove it. Even if someone can say they are familiar with it I’d say there will be too many limitations with this filter. All filtration systems have their pros and cons, but I’d say this filter design has so many negative points, that at this stage in your ownership you may be better off removing it and getting your filtration correct from the start and not make do with somebody else’s’ faulty design.

The more I look at it, I’d say the water is meant to be pumped in (as apposed to some air-uplift system) and is meant to be pumped in from right to left. That will leave the first large chamber (with central partition) for mechanical filtration (the cab itself would be left unfilled for even water distribution to first chamber). I’d be inclined to put kama-hard bio mat (as a coarse mechanical filtration), and then normal white filter wool. The last chamber of the left would be for biological media though I’ve no idea what is to stop the fish from swimming in here as the last wall is so low. If this last wall was say a centimetre lower than the filter chamber hight itself, the whole filtration system would make more sense.

You don’t mention the tank size itself that I can see, but I don’t think that will have any bearing on the filter’s way of working or how well it will work.

It is possible I’m missing some vital point in understanding how this filter is meant to work, but all in all I’d say the filter was designed by somebody who wasn’t fully able to understand some basic filtration requirements. Get rid of it and do something better.

To answer a question positively at first in regards to cleaning; it depends on what exactly the dirt is, if it is deposits left from African water (calcium build-ups) razor blades to start with, and for the finer stuff steal wool and metho. Do not use any sort of scoura (usually green) as they can scratch the glass. There is also a method using I think vinegar which I have never used by someone on these pages may give you more detail. Use no soap products, and test your cleaning methods low down on the back to make sure you are not doing any damage before you go to viewing panels.

Craig

[xzbit]

Thanks for your in-depth reply Craig !

Sorry, the tank is 200cm x 66cm(H) x 46cm(W). I honesty have no idea on how it really works as well and I was hoping that someone here had seen or knows how it works!! From the quick explanation by the previous owner it sort of worked the opposite to what you though ! It came with a resun pump and went from left to right (tail gate to cabin) with the pump sitting in the hole in the cabin. With water flowing from left to right and being sucked up by the pump and filtered out. The intake of the pump also didn't sit flush or tighty.

The tank was originally used for native fish like barra and saratoga's so I don't think he really had a issue with fish swimming up and into the back of the truck !! So I was thinking that I'd need to glue some fly wire to the back to prevent any fish swimming in!

I'm thinking the dirty glass is from a calcium build up because the take had a fair bit of coral rubble on the bottom which would have made the water fairly brackish, even though it was mainly used for natives! I'll give razor blade and steel wool a go! Lucky we have a long weekend this weekend! 2M of tank will sure keep me busy !

Ray

[xzbit]

In regards to the pump, although the resun one still works, it only around 600L/hr and I was considering upgrading the pump. The hole in the cabin is around 20mm, so I was thinking the Eheim 1250 (1200L/hr)universal pump that has an intake wiidth of about 17mm, which would make it a little more snug and fit a bit better. Or do I as you said get rid of it (worse case scenario).

But what filtration would you suggest I replace it with?

2 Eheim Cannisters?

Thanks in advance!

[Ash]

your intended occupants will affect filtration decisions

I'd be putting a sump on a tank that size if I owned it, but you could go a pair of cannisters, larger ones if you have a large bioload planned, or possibly 3

[xzbit]

Whoops, yeah the intended occupants will probably be (Adults):

- Electric Yellows (7)

- L. Fuellborni's (5)

- Rusty's (8-10)

- M. Johanni's (6)

It will be stocked fairly lightly for the time being. Or the other option was to put a colony of 15-20 Tropheus either Ikola Kaiser 1's or Dubosi maswa's, but I don't know if I have the funds to support that habit!

A sump would mean drilling the bottom of the tank right Ash?

You don't think a Cannister (e.g. Eheim 2217), an Internal & the "in-tank" sump would work?

[CThompson]

You couldn’t’ supply the way the filter was meant to run first up? I think I strained something trying to work out how it was meant to be run. If the pump itself is meant to go inside this in-tank filter then the filter is even worse than my previous estimation .

You can't organise an "appropriate” filtration system from what fish you want to have in it right now. You need to cater for other future uses. Your expressed other option for Tropheus – cater for them. That is, don’t cater for the lower level but the higher. Filter the tank for the Tropheus, and if at the end of day what ever you put in there, the tank will still work. Where as if you cater for just the mbunas, and decide to put Tropheus in there...

Here is the thought process you need to go through;

1. Work out the tanks total volume (L by B by H divided by 1000). Take this answer and multiply the total volume by 5 to 8 (8 would be better for Tropheus). This is the volume of water the pump needs to mover per hour.

2. Can this in-tank filter do this (I'm sure the answer is no)?

3. So, do you put a second filter on to complete what this in-tank filter can do? Or do you ditch the in-tank filter and purchase a filter that will do the lot?

4. At the end of the day, if for example it is a display tank, how good it looks will give a lot of weighting to your final decision.

Other points

o It can be handy to have two filters on one tank as it will increase the tank's Life Buffer (if one breaks down there is the second one to back it up).

o Personally I'd hate to have the in tank filter chewing up my valuable in-tank space/volume. Though I love the idea of having a back-up filter.

o It’s also going to be impossible to hide.

o Tanks this size will often have a sump (located under tank), but there would be nothing unusual to have a large canister on it (very personal call).

o Generally sump = drilling tank, but drilling a tank is an excellent way to have a canister fitted to the tank (my 800 litre tank is filter by a canister plumbed through holes drilled into the tank. Canister filters can access the tank with hoses and walking sticks. So if you can't have the tank drilled perhaps a canister may be your best option.

Craig

[xzbit]

I don't particularly want to drill a tank because i've never used a sump before and I don't really get how it works and I'm scared that as we have a lot of power strikes and power goes out a fair few times a year up here - what's to stop water from overflowing in the sump? Old man won't be too happy with 600L on the lounge floor!!

What cannister are you using on your 800L tank. By my calculations based on the formula's you've given me. For tropheus I'd probably need around 4,800L/hr.

I'd originally only planned for around 3000L/hr, which was only for the mbuna!

What cannisters would do the job for a decent price! The other half is not going to like this one bit!!!

Actually wouldn't a sump be a cheaper option? Something like a 3ft sump because I have a 3ft tank that's currently being used, but I was considering shutting it down?

[xzbit]

You couldn’t’ supply the way the filter was meant to run first up?

Are you referring to the guy that sold it to me? I think they were over the tank and they just emptied the tank and left all the crap in there ! (I think its been a while since its had water in it) Hence why the tank is so dirty! I've already had to clean a fair bit of stuff that was in the tank! As I said before, I got it relatively "cheap" considering the cost of tank up here where a 4x2x2 second hand (tank only) goes for around $400!! Brand new tank and stand is around $800 ! You guys are so lucky down south !!

[CThompson]

Drilling a tank is more a job for the experienced, it requires a special drill bit, though can be done by the sensible “home handy man” if you want to buy one. Glass supply places up your way will have them.

Sumps are simple, and if properly set up water will not overflow when the power stops

If you have a lot of power blackouts, then a canister may not be your best choice. No water flow = no oxygen. No oxygen (given a few hours) = no bacteria. No bacteria = dead fish. A sump system set up with water trickling through bioballs can go a lot longer without water flow (provided they don’t dry out) before the bacteria die.

A sump can be a cheaper option.

If the tank hasn’t been run for a while before going to any extra trouble, set it up on the ground (polystyrene underneath) and fill it to make sure it is still okay.

Craig

[xzbit]

Thanks for all the info Craig !

Has given me a lot to think about!

Cheers,

Ray