trofius Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 ok riddle me this last week i did the routine 40- 50% water change on the kachese tank, they go a little bit silly afterwards as usuall, next day theres a hang around at the top back, looks odd., i think it could be bad but am hell tired and go to bed, next morning he is still there but as i thought much bigger, scales not looking smooth, eyes , looking a tad popped out, late for work had to leave, get home and nab the bugger ( not an easy job getting one fish from a 8x2x2 with heaps of rocks, and is on a 1m high stand....35mins later i have him, yes he is a pineapple fish So i place him in a 25l tank no buffers or salts , tank water from another tank, 400mg of metro, and 250mg tetracycline, next morning tank is yuk( as the tetracycline goes in airbubbles, he is still alive looking sad! that afternoon he is again skinny and cruising abouts, 100% water change again with other tropheus tank water and today(4 days later he is eating well, but looking lonely..) So whats my next step.. do i add him back to the mob or wait it out a bit longer...was it bloat or something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hey Jamie, The symptoms of bloat don't just 'appear' over a short period of time so if it is bloat you were looking at the end stages of which recovery is quite rare. Without knowing the particular fish's condition and environment prior to then it is difficult to suggest a reason. Was he a dominant fish? Was he comprised by the others previously? Did the water change just add to his stresses? Was he injured in some other way previously? Have his eating habits changes at all over the past three or so weeks?Relax expectations of answers are not required - as you already know these are some of the variables that we deal with all the time . The doses of metro and tetra would not have had any significant impact if bloat had taken a hold - then again there is always a first time . It appears your treatment may have alleviated some of his woes. I usually find they do not do well alone - hence his sadder than usual face. I would continue to quarantine for a couple of more weeks - are there any dither fish you can spare to place with him - I find this sometimes helps psychologically I personally would not risk putting him back yet but more importantly I would be watching the rest of the tank mates like a hawk for a while. On a brighter note I now have a Tropheus fry grow out 5' tank. I know I know no pics yet filled with Maswa. polli, cherries, chipimbis and lufubu juvies and yes I can tell them all apart Nigel - relax the T craze is as strong as ever and is set to explode Jamie -Let us know what happens with the little man. HTH Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Trofius... I have had similar experiences with my moliro colony. I am not sure if it is truly bloat but physically they do become "bloated" like a pineapple as u described so perfectly. U have to remember, tropheus bloat usually does not require the fish to become physically bloated and if it does occur, as Aline correctly pointed out, it is end-stage and the fish will likely die no matter what u treat it with. I found that this unusual affliction only affects my breeding females intermittently shortly after they have been holding for weeks. The only explanation i can give is that when they were holding they haven't eaten very much so when u strip them (as i do now) they go and eat like crazy resulting in a bowel obstruction. This is only my theory. Another explanation is the act of stripping the females itself may have been too stressful resulting in bloat? Also i have been feeding stuff like Omega 3 spirulina pellets and once a week HBH super soft krill pellet? Maybe it is a dietary cause? I had a fish i removed to a hospital tank and treated for weeks to no avail and decided to end its misery by placing it in a small container in the fridge. When it happened to another female i decided to leave it in the main tank and treated the entire colony with metronidazole 1g per 50L twice daily for 2 weeks. The fish still looked like a pineapple despite all my efforts - water was spot on with 0 nitrates! Then after a month or so the fish recovered and was back to its usual self. Is it contagious? Well i currently have 2 females with the same affliction. The first being a veteran with this problem. Maybe it has kidney failure or something similar which causes fluid buildup? The veteran is now recovering, the other is less bloated but not eating much. I have decided not to treat and see what happens. None of the other tropheus are affected. What doesn't fit with bloat is that even when afflicted, the fish still likes to eat and is very active. So i can't explain what is happening? Would like to know if anyone else had similar experiences? Aline....could i borrow your 5 footer to grow up some of my fry? They will grow so quickly in there! That is great how u can tell the difference between them. I would have thought the chipimbi and lufubu would look quite similar? U must show us some of your tropheus pics taken with your new camera!!! Especially show us pics of your new fishroom!!! I have finally found a place to rent in Wollongong so please expect a lot of unexpected intrusions on your privacy!!! U may need to release the attack dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Is it contagious? Well i currently have 2 females with the same affliction. The first being a veteran with this problem. Maybe it has kidney failure or something similar which causes fluid buildup? The veteran is now recovering, the other is less bloated but not eating much. I have decided not to treat and see what happens. None of the other tropheus are affected. What doesn't fit with bloat is that even when afflicted, the fish still likes to eat and is very active. So i can't explain what is happening? Would like to know if anyone else had similar experiences?← My experiences have proved that yes 'bloat' is contagious Especially in the last stages when their guts have liquified due to the infection - they shed huge amounts into the water hence increasing the likelyhood of infection. Everyone's experience however is so different that we have all had success's and failure's in very different circumstances. Maybe as a group of T enthusiasts we may yet crack this mystery and heartache. I have not had a case since that one and only attack that annihalated my Nkondes and KII's. I really want to set up some test environments and may now have the room to do so unfortunately it will require sacrificing some ill fish as well as maybe healthy ones. Fish will start to cough up food quite early in the piece, so even if they appear to be eating they are not obtaining any nutrition. They will stop eating completely a week or so prior to death Watch for this as an early warning!! My dogs only attack on command - other than that they are just plain noisy for the first five minutes of anyone coming around . Unless you're Josh and then Jag will give you a love bite Happy to hear you have finally found some accomodation and I look forward to many discussions on T's and all things medical and just crap if you feel up to it Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Unless you're Josh and then Jag will give you a love bite He has gone off me. I havent had a bite for a while now The love affair must be over Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trofius Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 well thanks for the reposneses. I am of the impression it was not bloat, and as aline suggested the meds were of no real benefit.. as a sid enote he was eating almost the entire time, my entire kachese colony are insatiable pigs, when my folks were up and i fed them they thought i had droped the food in the tank....all gone 2 miins later, feeding 40 fish in the tank but... The symptoms the fish suffered were almost like if you get a salt water fish and place in fresh water, it swells up due to the osmotic potentiall, resulting in certain death....this was a similar reaction. Although i dont see why I always empty the same amount of water and add back the same amount of salts and buffers. pH and hardness remian stable... I am now sure it had something to do with a difference in salt concentrations but cant figure out the cause... Just have to see if there is any long term damage.. As for is it dominat...like most of them they have there moments it tries mix it up but is more a group fish than a loner or an outright bugger.... As a side note I think it was my post that may have triggered the dismembering of the tropheus pics forum....sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 No Mick it wasn’t because of your post. It was coming days ago it just no one had done anything yet. I guess no one wanted to play the bad guy. But I think everyone will agree it will be for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoliroMan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Ben...i guess u are the bad guy!!! But i think your one redeeming feature is your love for tropheus! i was waiting for this day to come! I congratulate u for having the guts to start this tropheus revolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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