Fast respnse time (0.01 sec), & iso to 1600

[CThompson]

Looking to purchase my first digital camera.

I’ve been doing a bit of research, and having trouble finding non-digital SLR (i.e. compact digital camera) with a fast response time. I also heard it referred to as “shutter lag”.

I would like to find either a compact digital camera, or a digital SLR look-alike with a shutter lag of 0.01 seconds or better, and an ISO rating up to 1600 (for low light non-flash shots.

If anyone can recommend a camera with these two parameters, what ever the zoom and MP that it happens to come with will be fine.

Fujifilm FinePix F10 has a shutter delay of 0.01 sec. and an iso from 80 right through to 1600. Would like to hear some other non-digital SLR options if any.

Craig

[Lepperfish]

Most non DSLR cameras will have lousy high ISO performance because of the small sensor size. And alot have shutter lag.

Shutter lag is something you'll get used to with your camera after using it for a while.

Whats your budget? Should consider a DSLR if its around 1k.

Canon 350D and Nikon D50 should be high on your list..

[Rod54]

I've just bought a Fujifilm FinePix S9000 Z...$850 with 1mb memory card

Top of the non slr type digital cameras....similar spec to the F10 but with good macro capability.

The 1600 iso works but the shots are noisy...a lot of grain in the final image.

SLR will definitely allow you to capture higher quality images....but a bit of overkill for use on the internet...in my opinion.

The Fujifilm FinePix S9000 Z also allows the use of remote flash unit that will allow the use of lower iso and provide good images.

Go to this site to compare digital cameras and work out what suits your needs/budget dpreview

[[RK]]

Buy a canon 350D. Trust me you wont regret it. I made the mistake of buying a non Digital SLR a few months ago, and now i wish i hadnt. You may not want a digital SLR at the moment, but you will later.

[ViS]

I've been looking at the 8.0MP range of DSLR and compact prosumer cameras for what seems like an eternity

I've read dozens of reviews on all of them.

As far as I'm concerned, the top 4 cameras for under $1500 are:

Olympus E500 DSLR

Canon 350D DSLR

Olympus C-8080 compact

Nikon CP-8800 compact

If I go DSLR or Compact, it will be the olympus models. They are superior in just about all departments. Other cameras may have fancier gadgets, but Olympus shine through in image quality, which is where it counts. The E500 is the upgrade of the E300. If one of the other two models happen to fall into my lap at a great price, I'd consider them. All models should have a fast enough shutter and low noise at high ISO to satisfy you.

Also the new Sony DSC R1 might be worth looking at in a 10.0MP prosumer. I haven't read too much about it, but first reports look good.

[Rod54]

I looked at DSLR before I chose the Fuji s9000

The Olympus and other DSLR's give very good image quality....but the standard lens wasn't appropriate for macro work....so another lens or add on were needed.

The Sony is more expensive than the Fuji and got poor reviews with regard noise at high iso. Also looked at the Panasonic DMC-FZ30 (see dpreview)

The prosumers can also do digital video

It really depends on what you what from the camera....

Have $1500+ to spend

Want brilliant poster size images...DSLR everyday....

Want to spend under $1000

Images for posting on the web...even the Fuji is overkill!

The following image is of a L. speciosus that is about 20mm long(so the image on the screen is more than twice the size of the actual fish)

Taken iso 400 under fluro light only....it's not a brilliant image...but it shows what the Fuji can do....without too much effort.

[CThompson]

In the past I have spent thousands on SLR cameras which have now been superseded with digital. These new digital cameras, if something goes wrong (outside warranty) they are a throw-out, and ideologiacally I am against this sort of attitude and am not prepared to purchase a full digital SLR with the knowledge that if something goes wrong there is no one to repair it.

So, I am trying to spend as little as possible.

Thanks for the tip Rod54, I was looking at the Fujifilm S9500 , but was turned off by the fact there was no image stabilazation (how important do you think this is?) and the fact the LCD was grainy and solarized easily. It also had “significant shutter lag” according to the review I read.

I have looked at the FinePix S9000 today on the internet, and this is the summary.

Likes

- Nice 10.7x optical zoom lens

- Folding LCD monitor

- Comfortable handgrip

- Great low light performance

- Flash exposure compensation

- Records full motion video (with zoom functionality)

Dislikes

- No image stabilization

- Single pin hot shoe

- Viewfinder and LCD are grainy

- LCD is small, grainy, and solarizes easily

- AA battery power

- Molded plastic body

- Difficult handling of buttons

- Slow, limited burst

- Significant shutter lag

- 9 megapixels results in noisier images than should be to compete in price range

I feel totally swamped with information, and am in a holding pattern at the moment.

Thanks Vis, I'll have a look at the cameras you've mentioned, though the $1,500 I might give a miss too.

[CThompson]

ViS

Olympus E-500 = $1379.00

E-300 = $ 999.00

Sony DSC R1 = $1469.00

I’ve spent all my spare cash on a 300cm by 66cm by 110cm tank and a 6’ by 2’ by 2’.6” tank (work in progress). I don’t have this kind of money for a camera, not to mention as said, I am looking for a compact digital and not a digital SLR (primarily due to the costs attached).

I would like to find either a compact digital camera, or a digital SLR look-alike with a shutter lag of 0.01 seconds or better, and an ISO rating up to 1600 (for low light non-flash shots).

If anyone can recommend a camera with these two parameters, what ever the zoom and MP that it happens to come with will be fine.

Craig

[Rod54]

Hi Craig,

In reply,

-No image stabilization

Not a real issue for taking photo's of fish in an aquarium? Use a tripod and adjust iso and fstop to get faster shutter speed to stop motion.

- Single pin hot shoe

BUT it does have a hotshoe for an external flash

- Viewfinder and LCD are grainy

I haven't found this a problem....it's the final image that counts

- LCD is small, grainy, and solarizes easily

As above...and solarisation isn't an issue taking pictures of fish!

- AA battery power

Some see this as a positive....stock up on rechargeable batteries so you always have power

- Molded plastic body

correct? Don't throw it around?

Difficult handling of buttons

You get used to them...not a big issue in my book

- Slow, limited burst

Takes longer to store large images...can't have everything?

- Significant shutter lag

Don't think so.....0.01 seconds. Problem is auto focus does take time...but you can switch to manual focus....then either set the focus at a certain point and wait or focus manually or leave it on auto focus ...press the buttonhalf way down to focus and all the way when you want to take a shot.

- 9 megapixels results in noisier images than should be to compete in price range

From what I've seen it's best in it's class???

The 9meg images allows a lot of cropping and as you can see by the image I posted(that was a 3488 x 2616 reduced to 640 x 480) there is no real need to go the the high iso where noise is a problem....

Use a flash or flashes or high end lighting(such as you have on you tank)and use a lower iso....80 or 100 to reduce noise.

Hope this helps...a cheaper solution would be the Fujifilm FinePix S5200 Zoom

Regards....Rod

[ViS]

As you can see in the following link, the C-8080 has faster times than it's competition, but still nowhere good enough for your set parameters (If I read it right). I think you might need to lower your expectations, or increase your bank balance.

If you want FAST timings, You'll be looking at a DSLR, and even the entry level ones around $1500 might only just do the job.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc8080wz/page10.asp

Below is a good review of the C-8080 from Megapixel.net:

http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/oly-c8080/c8080-gen.php

[[RK]]

Taken from DPReview.com

Olympus E-500

Image quality is on the whole very good, resolution essentially as good as the EOS 350D (Digital Rebel XT), although perhaps not as per-pixel crisp, and an Olympus-like contrasty tone / vivid color look to images. My only disappointments are with the way the cameras image pipeline deals with highlights which can look 'hard clipped', the over-processed looking sharpening and noise at ISO 1600. The E-500 still has (essentially) the same sensor as the E-300 and despite improved noise reduction it's still no match for Canon's excellent CMOS sensor at higher sensitivities (above ISO 400). Hence if you find yourself shooting a lot of ISO 800 and 1600 images you may wish to think harder about the Canon offerings.

A few pages to compare pictures taken from both cameras at diff ISO's (Canon looks better)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse500/page20.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse500/page24.asp

I think the Canon is clearly better than the Olympus when it comes to Digital SLR.

[ViS]

That's true for two "out of the box" cameras. It does appear that the 350D has slightly clearer shots (mainly at high ISO).

As you'll read on any of the sites though, is that the overall quality of the Olympus is superior to the canon (especially the lens and the glass in particular). The Oly also has the dust reduction, meaning years of dust free operation. If you are swapping canon lenses regularly, expect to find dust inside before long.

The canon also uses "rehashed" EF lenses, while the Oly has created lenses specifically for the DSLR.

It comes down to preference and price. The Oly is a better camera quality wise and should give you better results over a longer period, but the Canon is certainly also an excellent camera. I'd go the canon over the nikon D50 or D70 for sure.

If one feels better and more comfotable, I'd be leaning towards it. Most people don't shoot at ISO 1600, so the benefit of the canon doesn't really matter for the majority there. You'll save $300 - $400 with the Oly too.

Either one will give you many hours / years of fun.

[CThompson]

Thanks ViS and RK for the imput. Thanks for your response and time taken Rod – I’ve taken on board a lot of the comments you mentioned.

I feel like I’m getting swamped with information and choices.

I have come across the Ricoh Caplio R3, which has a 7.1 optical zoom, 5 mp iso to 800 and a response time of .09 (focus and shoot). $529.00

Don’t know about the quality of the lens, but then looking at shots taken with a Kodak digital camera….how good does the lens have to be?

Craig

[Dark Morelia]

You could also have a look at the Canon Powershot S2 IS [Link]

I have it's predecessor, the S1 IS, and it's a fantastic camera.

I've had a play with an S2 IS as well, and it's even better.

Be sure to check out the timings in the review.

It sounds fairly close to what you want, albeit without the ISO range, but still worth having a look at I reckon.

HTH

[Rod54]

Thanks ViS and RK for the imput.  Thanks for your response and time taken Rod – I’ve taken on board a lot of the comments you mentioned.

I feel like I’m getting swamped with information and choices.

I have come across the Ricoh Caplio R3, which has a 7.1 optical zoom, 5 mp iso to 800 and a response time of .09 (focus and shoot). $529.00

Don’t know about the quality of the lens, but then looking at shots taken with a Kodak digital camera….how good does the lens have to be?

Craig

←

For the sort of money you want to spend I wouldn't worry about the iso 1600....image quality at that iso is generally very poor in all but very expensive cameras.....iso 400 would be sufficent.

Have you had a look at dpreview.com? You can chose a number of camera's and compare their features side by side...you can also select a spec and it will show you all the camera's that fit that spec.

I think there are better camera's than the Ricoh for the money....doesn't have good feedback from users in dpreview.

The F10 or Canon powershot would be better....but better still just compare them with the Ricoh on dpreview.com

Having just been through a similar exercise I can sympatize with your delema

[ViS]

It might also be worth looking at the Canon "G" series. I have the G2 and it's still a great camera 6 years down the track.

The G5 or G6 are good point and shoot cameras, with quality components.

The G6 should be under $700 and the G5 even cheaper.

[Brett4Perth]

Hi Craig,

Certainly empathise with your dilemma, there is certainly information overload with camera reviews. A couple of years back I bought a Canon G3, nice camera with plenty of flexibilty and easy to use. My son has a digital SLR, Canon 300D, which is an excellent camera.

Despite this equipment the photos aren't that special. Lack of skill on the part of the photographer. Aspects like lighting and technique are just as important, if not more so, than the camera itself. I think it is easy to overcapitalise on the camera, unless you are a real enthusiast and prepared to spend the time learning the craft.

Go back through the Photo section and look at the pictures "Enigma" was taking with his old camera. Still way better than anything I have taken despite using similar equipment.

Good Luck with your choice

Brett

[fman]

Brett

I could not agree more. A good photographer with an average camera will always take better photos than someone with little experience with a great camera.

I don't really see the point of having ISO 1600, since the photos will come out grainy. I also don't see the point of a fast response time either, unless you're taking action photos. With a bit of practice, you can anticipate the camera lag, and adjust accordingly.

I've been dabbling in this field for only a few months, and I have much to learn. However, I feel that the key component is lighting. You need sufficient lighting to allow you to use a fast shutter speed (to avoid blur), whilst having a small aperture (to allow sufficient depth of focus).

This type of photography is both challenging and rewarding.

Good luck!

Frank

[CThompson]

I find dpreview difficult to get to work. A black screen opens up with a menu on the top left, when I try to navigate, I often can’t leave this first page.

I got it to work and show me Canon powershot A620, and the first thing that stood out in my mind was that this camera only had a 4 times zoom where as the Ricoh Caplio R3 had a 7.1 zoom. I also couldn’t find the response time on the Canon, which from my “limited” experience means that it isn’t good enough for them to want to advertise it (please comment to this).

And when I looked at the reviews on the Ricoh, one person hated it the other loved it, giving the camera completely difference star ratings. So what’s the point on having such subjective reviews when they can be so polarised (no pun intended).

I see the response time as of prime importance, as it doesn’t matter how good the lens, or how many mp or what ever other parameter you look at if the subject (either fish or kids for example) have left the view finder, or the moment has passed.

I’m on holidays after today, so from then will be off the internet.

Have a good Christmas.

Craig

[fman]

Craig

On the subject of optical zoom - yes, bigger is better, though many cameras with large optical zooms will begin to show chromatic abberation as you increase the zoom length. In addition, the more you zoom in on close subjects, the more critical the focussing. Depth of field reduces the more you zoom in, which means that your focussing needs to be spot on.

On the subject of shutter lag, there are a few things you can do to reduce the time the camera takes to record the image. Firstly, set you camera to full time auto focus. This means that the camera is maintaining focus as you compose the shot, and not having to focus while you're actually taking the photo. Alternatively, you can use manual focus. You can also preset your exposure settings. The less "thinking" the camera needs to do when you press the shutter button, the faster your response time.

As a last measure, you could always come over to the dark side and get Americans. They seem to be slower moving than Africans.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being patronising. I'm not. I just want you to be aware of all your options before you make a final decision, and the sort of questions to ask if and when you decide on a particular camera.

Have a good holiday Craig.

Cheers, Frank

[CThompson]

Thanks Frank

Craig

PS - it'll take a lot to pull me away from my Africans!

[CThompson]

For those that remember this post and offered information/opinions, I thought I would get back to you and let you know that I have now bought a digital camera. I bought it from CCC Camera House in the city that has an online …”outlet” which has prices cheaper than all prices other Camera House outlets offer. It is being posted to me at the moment, and I am still awaiting the arrival of a 6.1 megapixes Nikon D50 SLR digital camera ($989). I purchase a 1gb SD Kingston memory card for $120 as well on top of that.

The camera comes with a 18-25 lens (amongst other things). What attracted me most to this camera (apart from having effectively no response time), was that two other lenses I currently have with my film SLR camera, a 35-70 and a 70-210 are both useable on this new digital camera. Apparently due to the focal point being different with these two lenses on a digital camera compared to a film camera, the lens size is multiplied by 1.6 on these two lenses.

That means I will have an 18-55 (the lens that came with the camera) a 56-112 (the 35-70) and a 112-336 (the 70-210), which will give me a really good spread, 18-336.

One of the advantages I felt with all these available digital cameras is their compact, take anywhere, nature. With this camera, I will have lost some of that (though I can just take one lens when I go out and leave two at home), but I felt with the fact I would not be resigning ALL my old camera gear to the back of the cupboard , and the fact it is an actual SLR, this downside of loss of portability (to a degree) was more than made up for, with wicked response times, fantastic lenses, and really good quality finished photos.

My thanks to those that posted.

Craig

[fman]

Craig - good decision, especially since already you had the lenses to match. The price was good as well! Just be careful not to get dust inside the camera when you're changing lenses - can be quite costly to have the sensor cleaned.

Looking forward to seeing some of the results

Cheers, Frank

[YeW]

I can strongly endorse the Olympus x0x0 range. Check out the crisp images in my macro thread to see the dodgy 5 MP version (Olympus 5050z). Olympus make great cameras. I've heard great things about the Olympus 8080.

If I was buying a DSLR I'd go the Canon 350D or the Nikon.

[CThompson]

Craig - good decision, especially since already you had the lenses to match. The price was good as well! Just be careful not to get dust inside the camera when you're changing lenses - can be quite costly to have the sensor cleaned.

Looking forward to seeing some of the results 

Cheers, Frank

←

Frank,

is the inside of a digital SLR any more sensitive to dust than the inside of a film SLR?

Craig