D6C1 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I am sure this has been discussed before, but I was reading "new scientest" from 2003 and they done experiments where they would inject acid in the lips and see how the fish reacts. In another they would do the same, but have morphine or something like that as a pain killer in the water. I would like to hear what you guys/girls out there think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I have read the same article in New Science Magazine, and if I remember correctly, they concluded that they could feel pain. I know it is generally regarded that fish do not, but this has NEVER made sense to me. I personally am sure they do, it is too great a motivator to escape injury or death in a dangerous world for them not to. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I'm pretty sure they feel pain. I just wonder to what extent their brains are developed to interpret the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I'm pretty sure they feel pain. I just wonder to what extent their brains are developed to interpret the pain. ← I think that's the valid question, do they feel it like us or do they just feel some general discomfort or something else entirely? Even in humans pain is not a measurable entity, it's only taken from the behaviour & language used by the sufferer. The poor fish cannot speak, so how do they observe it? Stand on a dog's tail & it'll yelp, fish can't do that. To the unobservant clamped fins, colour change & faster gill movement probably mean nothing, however I'm sure most of us recognise them as symptoms of distress. But is the fish suffocating, have abdominal or muscle pain or am invisable to the naked eye parasite? We just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 I'm pretty sure they feel pain. I just wonder to what extent their brains are developed to interpret the pain. ← I think that's the valid question, do they feel it like us or do they just feel some general discomfort or something else entirely? ← Maybe some enjoy pain, after all South Americans seem to like a bit of fighting and distress before "doing the deed". Like some humans out there too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novafishy Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2983045.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 Excellent point. However their brains are able to interpret pain, it will be a sensation that is not pleasant, to discourage a repeat performance. So though it will be anthropomorphic to expect then to feel pain as we do, personally I have always regarded it to mean simply an unpleasant stimulus that nature has wired a creature to interpret as something that should be avoided. We as fish keepers should be empathetic enough to treat our charges with as much understanding as possible. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropheusQueen Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 We as fish keepers should be empathetic enough to treat our charges with as much understanding as possible.Craig← Well said. Aline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuong Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 If fish have peripheral neurons coupled with a Na+ gradient to depolarize said neurons, then they can feel pain. I think the lateral line of the fish is a good example of the neurons and sensory receptors that fish do have. Fish are not developed enough to express pain in a complex manner (ie. crying) but they can express it in very basic motions like flinching. As like what Ash said, I thought it was a bit subjective to evaluate pain by the reactions of the fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canerod Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 As a fisherman I think its obvious that they can feel and understand pain. Put a fish hook into a big bream and as soon as he feels the bite of the hook he bolts for cover, does two laps around the nearest snag, then swims away free. He felt it, he understood it, and he took the appropriate action to remedy it. Same goes for open water pelagic fish, they feel the hook and the first thing they do is jump out of the water shaking their heads like crazy to shake the hook out. If they didnt understand how would they naturally know the best response to aid them? Feeling pain and understanding it and its cause is not the same as applying human emotions to it, we hate the pain and hate what inflicts it, then we deal with it. Fish feel it and sometimes understand how to get rid of it, no emotion involved. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wui39 Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 good to hear a fisherman's point of view as well...and you seem to have explained it pretty well, not like that idiot from the website novafishy put up, and he's even a doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10050460 Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 i wonder if ants feel pain? their brains would be so much smaller than a fish brain. Say a fish like discus, when they get flukes or itch, they scratch themselves against some wood or plants, im assuming they must be feeling some sort of discomfort cause by the disease and therefore scratch themselves against an object to relieve the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyN Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Agreed with discus, when they are uncomfortable they change colour, and flick, or attempt to soothe the pain. Tho IMO discus are a fairly smart fish, by fish standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Agreed with discus, when they are uncomfortable they change colour, and flick, or attempt to soothe the pain. Tho IMO discus are a fairly smart fish, by fish standards ← Hence they are named the "King of the Fish Kingdom" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Fish are not developed enough to express pain in a complex manner (ie. crying) Hey - how would you know if a fish was crying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuong Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 1. No lacrimal glands/ducts 2. If they did cry, the opposite to humans would occur and you'd see little air bubbles coming from their eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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