fishly Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Can I use the normal compose, the one which normally used in our garden (bio grow for roses) as a substrate in the planted tank? Would it affect the fishes? Can it create more troubles (eg. algae bloom) than using gravel as a substrate? Has anyone tried it yet? Regards, Fishly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hi fishly, I dont know about your rose mix but i have heard that kitty litter and potting mix has worked. Potting mix seems a similar mix to yours so maybe some others have used it. wazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 Thanks Wazza. Does kitty litter contain iron, phospate, and etc; which support the grow of our plants? or its function just like gravel which is used to hold the plants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grungefreek Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hi, Well from what i have read about Kitty litters as a substrate (which is alot), Some brands of KL conatin High levels of chelated iron. Some people believe KL is nearly as good as substrates like flourite. If you do a search there should be stacks of information on KL as a substrate, as well as using potting mixes etc. A good place to start is this site; www.plantedtank.net Thats a good american planted aquarium site. Information and opinions on differing substrates is endless. But ofcourse its an american site, so things here are different compared to there, so things like KL's they recommend for use in tanks dont exist here. So gather info from That site and also this one, but check back here to see what is recommended etc etc. HTH Grungie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 The reason for kitty litter is the zeolite, to bind Fe for the plants. BUT, and this is a big but, not all kitty litter is the same, and there is an awful lot of stories of failures in the planted aquarium archives (see The Krib), so I wouldn't recommend it. It would appear that soil (or potting mix) is quite good, especially mixed with some peat (not coconut peat BTW), as that improves the redox properties making the Fe more available. If you do go this route, make sure the soil is in the bottom 1/3, and gravel the top 2/3, as the soil will be too rich in direct contact with water. Also make sure your fish do not dig (one of the reasons I went with laterite instead, although should have added peat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callatya Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 I've seen some BRILLIANT planted tanks done on regular topsoil covered in gravel. There is a great book about it, but i cant recall the name. Seems very easy to do and maintain I too have heard of kitty litter. Problem is finding out what is in what brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 I've seen some BRILLIANT planted tanks done on regular topsoil covered in gravel. There is a great book about it, but i cant recall the name. Seems very easy to do and maintain Probably "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett4Perth Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Anyone know where I can get a copy of that book? Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Anyone know where I can get a copy of that book? Best bet is Amazon; with the A$ as it is, will probably be worth it, expecially if you order a few books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoolig Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I use K/L as a filter medium it is called Attapulgite. Go to "Google search and type in Attapulgite. I buy this product in 20k bags in QLD but it comes from NSW. Try Hudson Resources PO B ox R356 Royal Exchange NSW1225 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Hi guys, I bought the potting mix already. But I have a question here, do I have to wash them or not? Regards, Fishly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I bought the potting mix already. But I have a question here, do I have to wash them or not? No, but have at least 4-5 cm of gravel over it. Might also be good to mix in some peat; I've always wanted to try that, but don't currently have a new tank to experiment on, so would be interested to see how you find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajk Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hey Guys, While your on the topic. Is it possible to maintain a planted tank ( a nice one) without the substrates your talking about and by simply using gravel? If so what plants would best suit this environment? Would CO2 be required on a 3ft tank with three fluro globes? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 While your on the topic. Is it possible to maintain a planted tank ( a nice one) without the substrates your talking about and by simply using gravel? If so what plants would best suit this environment? It's possible, but easier with at the very least laterite; it short-cuts the process, as otherwise you have to depend on mulm buildup to provide fertiliser. Echinodorus especially needs a fertilised substrate. Most things will grow in a non-fertilised substrate, but just slowly; having done both, the difference is very apparent. Would CO2 be required on a 3ft tank with three fluro globes? What wattage are your tubes? CO2 can help in high light tanks to reduce algae buildup (more common in brightly lit tanks) in conjunction with the proper fertiliser regime and enough plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjpoke Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 What about potting mix and sand? Would the same idea work, or would it be too easy for the fish to get to the bottom? And is it just generic home brand potting mix, or some special brands we should look out for/stay away from (eg: those with added garden supplements)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishly Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 I think you can use sand and potting mix together, but if your fishes like mbuna which always dig the substrate, you better of using gravel. Just use the ordinary potting mix. Regards, Fishly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Has anyone ever heard about the “Liebig Minimum Theory”? It states that “plant growth will be dictated by the one factor that is present at a minimum.”. In reference to the question about will a 3’ with light get by without CO2 and a planted tank without some sort of substrate additive. Yes you can, but the Liebig Minimum Theory will take a hand, and if the “minimum factor” is something that can only be added within the substrate, or will be made up for with the addition of CO2, then what do you think will happen with those tanks? Will the plants die? Most likely not, but that will depend on the requirements of the plant species. If they require a lot of nutrients, such as red leaved plants (which probably won’t have red leaves under those circumstances anyway), then they may not survive. I have two tanks with soil straight from the garden, and gravel on top of that. There is no artificial lighting, no CO2, and all the plants are low light (anubius, jarva fern and moss and a few swords and crypts), and you can’t see the back of either tank. If I had all of the previously mentioned, then they would do better, but they get by okay as it is, and I don’t have masses of pruning to do (mostly just the spawning moss). I guess it is a choice of HOW well you want the tank to go, and if you want to grow some of the more demanding of the plants (red leaves). Anyway, just my thoughts. Try to get your head around the Libig Minimum Theory , as though it is very simple, it can also be a bit inverse at times (such as adding light to get ride of an algae problem if light is your minimum factor), and always enabled me to “tweak” the correct factor in my old 400 litre planted tank. BTW if one has a planted tank, don't have fish that dig, and if one has a planted tank, no Mbuna has a place in it, as appart from their digging, they require completly different pH. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Can anyone tell me where i can buy laterite in Sydney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CThompson Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Give Anthony or Joseph a call at Auburn Aq, or even possible Chris at AquaPets Bondi Junction. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Thankyou! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Or Lams, or Campbelltown Aquarium, or order on-line from www.aquaria.com.au. The two Craig suggested and the three above I know to have laterite (Duplarit). Or if you follow Frank's (from Manly Aquarium) advise, go up the road a bit, and dig some from the red hillside in the Central Coast area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hieuc Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 red dirt works abosilutely great! im in melb but there is also a place with red dirt . ive had it running for over 1 yr now and the rooted plants love it, esp the amazon swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emp1re Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 potting mix contains too many organic materials which is more suitable for algae growths. Hence u will have problems with controlling algae break-out. i wouldn't recommend using potting mixes, get something that is high in iron and low in phosphate. e.g laterite u don't have to get a lot, just a few balls around the roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OziOscar Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Please pardon me for being perhaps ignorant, but when there is soil under the gravel, how does one vacuum the gravel for removing faeces etc without disturbing the soil / potting mix / special rooting material and mixing it into the gravel or sucking it out? Just do a superficial surface vacuum rather than a plunge and twist vacuum? Looking forward to learning from you all. Cheers - OziOscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHL Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Please pardon me for being perhaps ignorant, but when there is soil under the gravel, how does one vacuum the gravel for removing faeces etc without disturbing the soil / potting mix / special rooting material and mixing it into the gravel or sucking it out? Just do a superficial surface vacuum rather than a plunge and twist vacuum? If you have enough plants, why would you remove their source of fertiliser? From personal experience, planted tanks with gravel only don't take off until there is mulm buildup to feed the plant roots (for rooting plants such as Vals, Crypts and Echinodorus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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