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Rare fish program & aution revision NSWCS


crabros

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Hi Guys and Girls,

Just interested to know how this new program will work. As Dave mentioned there are 5 species that are being looked into at the moment.

Now my concern is as with others that after the person has bred them they can be placed in the mini auction to be auctioned off. Thats fine with me. But as the RULES stipulate you CAN only place one bag per species into the auction.

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well. There will be alot of angry people if this doesnt apply even to these RARE species. The reason I say this is there are alot of people out there that do bred RARE fish and can ONLY put one bag of that species in. I see that this now disadvantages the people at the NSWCS as the people with the RARER fish will sell them to there LFS unless you know the breeder otherwise our members will have to pay full price for them if they want them. I personally like to sell my fish at the auctions as it gives the newer members the chance to buy new fish at a good price and it enables others to have a crack at a new species of fish as well.

I wont be placing fish into the mini auction as I feel it is a waste of time putting 6 to 8 RARE fish in a lot with a stupid reserve to sell them. When I could place 4 in each bag and reduce the reserve price so people can have a go at getting them. The reason I would put at least two lots in is that most people like to buy between 6 - 10 fish to start a colony. You at least have a better chance to get boys and girls not always the case but at least you have a better chance for a nice colony.

Thats my opinion and Im not having a go at any committee member either.

Thanks all the best

Brett rolleyes.gif

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But as the RULES stipulate you CAN only place one bag per species into the auction

And it was clearly explained on saturday night that the fish on this list would be exempt from that rule.

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well

Why wouldn't it?

From the people I spoke to on Saturday night, the only ones who were upset or worried about this initiative were those who were quite obviously in this hobby for the money and not for the fish. The nswcs is about education and the sharing of knowledge, and it has never pretended to be a place of business for us to all make money. Sure, if our hobby can support itself financially that is a bonus I think.

To all those who are worried, why not have a talk to the committee about your concerns? If you know of more fish which are as rare as the ones on the list and in as much danger of being lost from the hobby, I am sure the committee would love to hear about it.

Please note that I said rare, not "high retail value".

there are alot of people out there that do bred RARE fish

That's excellent news! Perhaps they wont be rare for too much longer with that amount of interest!

I may be wrong, but I got the impression on the night that this initiative was more of an incentive to those people willing to breed and maintain a few species which are not very popular and declining in numbers. I didn't at any point get the impression that it was designed to punish anyone, and cannot see how this program would disadvantage anyone who chooses not to take part. If you dont take part, you go by the same bag-limit rules as the rest of us. If you take part, you get a bit of a bonus....

At the end of the day, the auctions (mini-auctions in particular) are a bit of fun and a great way to raise a bit of money for the club. Let's ride the trial period out before we all get hot under the collar hey?

Thats my opinion and Im not having a go at any committee member either

I know Brett, and I'm not having a go at anyone either tongue.gif

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i agree that the new rule states that we can only sell one spp at a time.

but in my understanding, this 5 spp that dave mentioned are excempted from that rule (??)

there's a sub committe made out for this, i think mark is looking after it (??)

maybe chat to the committee and see what happens on the trial period.

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Hi,

Resistance to change is a wonderful thing to watch biggrin.gif .

Baz, thank you for a great response to this thread.

The operative word is 'trialing'. In an effort to make the meetings more manageable this is the option that the committee has voted and chosen for a period of three (3) months. Not too short not too long.

Speak up during that period if you have concerns, or alternatively praise, for the system and preferrably directly to any committee member(s).

On booking in lots on Saturday night I personally received no complaint and all but one member (who had been absent for three months and did not know about the trial) had happily complied.

Look forward to your suggestions.

Cheers

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when it comes to rarer fish I am not sure why anyone would complain about a bag limit in the mini auction. after all, as far as I remember members are MORE than welcome to advertise fish for sale! looking at past auction prices I have never seen a rare fish going for anything but absurdly cheap. take the linni on saturday night for example. $11 each for good size fish! also the duboisi going through went for well under their normal value.

so if you truly want to offer your rare stuff to members, then get an announcement read out at the meeting or post them online. I am sure that auction is not the only way to sell stuff! if you don't mind selling cheap, why not just sell em cheap online? I am postive you will manage to sell them at a cheap price and it will demonstrate whether or not you REALLY want to help people out with new fish or not! smile.gif

can't see how anybody is going to miss out if you do that and since we obviously are only worrying about the benfits of NSWCS members money shouldnt be all that much of an issue right?

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hi,

I don't want to complain about initiatives to manage the size of the mini auctions but I think there should be a (large) list of species that the limit applies to rather than a (small) list of species it does not apply to.

Even with that I think the club needs to be careful that they're not too successful in constraining the auction.

While I get just as bored as everyone else watching bag after bag of electric yellows and bristlenose go past we can't forget the club membership has grown enormously in recent times while these yellows have been parading by so is it really such a *bad* thing?. (I think Anthony mentioned a threefold growth in recent years when talking about the workload committe members carry).

I contend that the large turnover of cheap boring fish has been a major part of building those membership numbers. People have to start with something and it isn't and shouldn't be rare stuff.

I guess I'm saying if we consider club growth as a good thing we should consider the growth of the min-auctions as a good thing also even if we get bored watching the same fish being auctioned repeatedly *sigh*.

Just look through this site and talk to any new member and you'll realize that for many people the mini and maxi auctions are *the* reason they get off their backsides and attend meetings, the other factors are just added bonuses at least initially.... just how many times have people had to post "it's not an auction it's a meeting; the auction is just incidental damnit!" smile.gif.

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G'day Brett

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well.

What exactly are you implying?

Anyone with these rare fish is welcome to put in 5 bags of them into an auction. And that means anyone. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

Pretty disappointing when an "ex" current committee member, starts implying weird stuff on a public forum.

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You've made some good points there laurie.

We obviously need the bread and butter fish to come through for the newbies, and I dont think the aim here was to ever stop that happening. A good balance would be nice, and I am sure the committee will be thoroughly evaluating the results at the end of the trial period.

You're also right about the auctions being a major drawcard to the meetings, we just need to be careful not to let them be the only reason the nswcs exists. Otherwise there may as well be a name change to the NSW Cichlid Auctions Ltd wink.gif

Btw I was going to email you but I have no frilly knickers to remove ohmy.gifohmy.gifohmy.gif

You really are a clown rolleyes.gif

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I feel the initiative was faultlessly worked out and accurately delivered by Dave.

It was clearly stated as a trail. I dont think I could have offered improvement.

Crabros idea of number of fish as oposed to number of bags does have some merit. Say 6 fish in 6 bags could be offered as one lot, highest bidder taking one or all, the under bidder then having second choice, and then offered as a balance take the lot. One call, 6 fish in 6 bags. I would be only too happy to further explain this concept of "lots in a row" to whoever is looking after the auction.

I see an issue here with the words "rare" and "endangered", this is an endangered fish program, not a rare fish program. 500 of a particular species in one tank could be a rare fish, 10 of the same species in 50 tanks in 50 fish rooms is not a rare fish.

While I too get bored with bag after bag of small electric blues these are often the medium by which we start the hobby. To someone 6 littles blues in a bag is as important and 6 big 7 bar Fronts to someone else, we all start somewhere. All clubs are a work in progress and I think the current committee is doing a famous job.

Keep up the good work!

Craig Douglas.

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Hi Matthew,

Pretty disappointing when an "ex" current committee member, starts implying weird stuff on a public forum.

Ok I am an EX committee member so what. rolleyes.gif

My point is if its RARE - ENDANGERED it doesnt matter the committee made the point on bag limits these rules should be adhered to and should stick with it. ITS ONLY a 3 month TRIAL remember. laugh.gif

If new fish come into the country or have been here a long time my point is unless someone is breeding it you CAN still LOSS the species. So why should there be rules for some fish and not others thats my Point.

I can see were Dave is coming from with these endangered species and it's good to see HOWEVER after the auction rules went into place this new inclusion went in at the meeting and there should be no new exceptions.

Thats my opinion

Brett

P.S Im not implying weird stuff just want ANSWERS and SOLUTIONS. tongue.gif

Im dissapointed that I cannot air problems on a forum without people jumping up

and down. You can shoot as much as you want but that doesnt solve the problem.

Have a nice DAY cool.gif

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seems like your point changed between posts.

but since you raise the "nobody will breed them" topic, it sounds to me like this whole idea is to MAKE people breed fish that are endangered within australia. what better way to encourage people to breed these fish than allow them a place to sell? as far as I am aware the fish on the list thus far tend to have a low commercial value so its for love of fishkeeping they will be bred. very few shops will buy them due to their low demand, so the auction is the best way to help sell them. sounds like a great idea to me!

as for other rare fish, well most of these tend to be new to the country, and there is certainly no lack of money around for them. people will breed them simply for the return they bring. I can hardly see how there is a need to allow more at auction when there is already an abundance of places you can sell them. if however these fish lose value, and everyone stops breeding them, I am sure they would be added to the list of fish to save.

I believe that the auction rules went in to place to make the mini auctions mini again. even with these new rules there was 150 odd lots on Saturday. I can't see how the rules will not be kept on after the trial period. now considering how few fish will realistically be coming through from these 5 species, I fail to see how letting an extra bag or two would significantly impact the size and duration of the mini auction. after all that is the PRIMARY reason this rule was introduced. I can however see how allowing multiple bags of common fish could easily increase the duration of the auction.......

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I wont be placing fish into the mini auction as I feel it is a waste of time....

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well

Brett, these are just a couple of quotes from your post which have possibly made it look like you were after more than just answers and solutions.

You were there on the night, did you raise your concerns with the committee? They are after questions like this to address I am sure. I am happy to forward your concerns on to them if you are reluctant to do so for some reason, just let me know wink.gif

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I'd just like to clarify something about the "rare/endangered" fish that will be considered for going on to the list (the list will build up over time BTW).

While some of the new species recently imported could be considered "rare" as they are still in low numbers (there being not enough time yet to breed them up) these are not considered to be at risk. They have a high monetary value and because they're new and flavour of the month everyone's interested in them.

The kind of species that are at risk are the ones that have been here for years, have become very low value and everyone's become bored of them (they're too keen on all the new stuff!). I think a good example of a species that's heading this way is something like lombardoi - they're going for nothing at the auctions, they practially have to give them away for anyone to take them. The quality will slide and I reckon it won't be that long that we'll all be saying "where have all the lombardoi gone?". It's the same thing that happened to the original stocks of Ps. aurora that were brought in years ago. At one point you couldn't give them away. The next thing, they were all gone.

So in a way, this will really benefit those who have stuck by a species because they were dedicated to it, rather than interested in how much money they could make from it. That's what our hobby is really all about, when it comes down to it.

Cheers,

Jess

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wink.gif

Why would anyone with rare fish want to put them in the 'mini-auction' any way? Wouldn't they be better off selling them through a forum like this where they could better appricated. Iam not saying that the people at the meeting wouldn't. for examples take the linni that went through the 'mini-auction' on saturday, not one bid and furcifers that didnt reach reserve. It's great to see these types of fish go through. I believe it would be better to get a guarenteed sale, than to stress the fish by bagging them, taking them to the auction, sitting in a bag all night, then having to go home and put back in the tank! Also if ppl dont know what these fish are, then buy them, take them home and dont realise the care needed to keep them they die and they are gone forever! There are a number of ppl who go just for the auction and to pick up the cheap fish. I know this is true, I was one of them but through my dealings with the ppl in the club it has become much more to me.

I believe there shouldn't be any dispute over bag limits for rare fish in auctions. I was under the impression that we are hear to preserve the fish not sell them to the highest bidder! If you have a rare fish, you should be more worried about maintaining the species and education, as the ppl who want these fish will come to you for them.

I sorry if I have offended anyone

thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

Josh and Evelyn

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[Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well]

[i wont be placing fish into the mini auction as I feel it is a waste of time....]

[im not implying weird stuff just want ANSWERS and SOLUTIONS. ]

Brett, Brett, Brett

Of course people will jump up and down, you are doing it too.

Your point was very clear in your initial post.

The statements listed above are self expanatory.

The answers you have been given are clear and concise so don't back down now.

It was a slight against the honesty and integrity of the committee and uncalled for.

Schoolground mentality where there should be none.

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Brett

I notice that your thread title is RARE FISH PROGRAM NSWCS but you are actually talking about the restrictions placed on the mini auction.

At the committee meeting when it was decided to implement these changes you were soundly outvoted. OUTVOTED democratically. You then continued to complain and complain. Then went and got another member to start a thread before we could announce it to the members and now this.

I see this thread as nothing more than another attempt to make a democratically elected committee do what you want and not what we as a collective consider best for the club.

We need to make sure that we do not mix the two endeavors. The restrictions on the mini auction are there to stop them from overly dominating the meeting.

The Species Preservation program is about saving fish that are already in Australia but look like being lost to the hobby because of the fact that they are not “trendy” at the moment. That doesn’t mean that the fish is necessarily RARE or not.

This initiative is an important one in my view as we have lost so many fish to the hobby because they go out of fashion. So important, that I believe that these fish when spawned should be sold separately from the mini auction.

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well. There will be alot of angry people if this doesnt apply even to these RARE species.

Thats my opinion and Im not having a go at any committee member either.

???????????

I personally like to sell my fish at the auctions as it gives the newer members the chance to buy new fish at a good price and it enables others to have a crack at a new species of fish as well.

You know full well that you can always put bags of fish through the Trade table. If you truly want to give the members, regardless of how long they have been members, “the chance to buy new fish at a good price“ then I would expect that you would be doing that, and not just at the next meeting but at a few of them, consistently.

You could also be advising members of the availability of your rare fish by putting an advert in the buy and sell segment that is read out to the entire hall.

Let’s get it straight. It is not about RARE fish it is about fish that may be lost to the hobby in Australia.

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Ok.

I'm not going to attempt to respond to anything in this thread. Too much oddness for my taste...and I'm supposed to be on a holiday wink.gif.

Here's where the committee is coming from with this initiative:

The idea has NOTHING to do with the mini-auction.

We are looking to promote 5 species at present. More may be added at some point - some may be removed. These fish are NOT new to the country and we have no desire to add any that are NEW to the country onto this list - as in 99.99999999% of cases there is MORE than enough interest in those species anyway.

So we have our five species:

"Pseudotropheus" livingstonii

Etroplus suratensis

Etroplus maculatus

Krobia itanyi

Guianacara geayi

The aim was to find a way to promote these species - the best way that the committee could think of was to remove restrictions on the mini-auction/main auction for these species, more breeders competition points etc. Although there are other fish that are worthy we want to try our best to get as much attention focused on these five fish as we can. If there are 20 fish on the list... thats spreading the interest over a larger number of fish and the project is less likely to succeed.

Finally - my last point is "don't knock it, till you try it".

There have been a small number of vocal critics of various decisions the committee has taken and while we take all these critisms on board we ask that everyone give these incentives, programmes etc a decent run. If we don't try something, after all - we never know if it will work!

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Hi All

I unfurtunatly could not make it to the meeting, so I am somewhat at a loss at what everyone is going on about?

Could someone please post on here what the endangered fish are and what the criteria for the trial period is?

Is the ruling for 3 bags/single member and 5 bags/family member still apply to this as well??

Sorry yew was typing this when you posted.

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[.

Now I hope this APPLIES to the committee as well. There will be alot of angry people if this doesnt apply even to these RARE species. .

As a current serving member on the nswcs committee I have taken offence to what you have said in the following

Brett I have a good relationship with you as do many of the current committee

However when you make a statement as such you are tarnishing all of us as being "corrupt " If you beleive that people in the committee get special privelages

let me know because i havent seen that to be the case However you have served on many commitees in the past have you seen this to be the case in the past and if so what did you do about it

Now getting back to business

The aim of the society is the discussion ans furtherance of matters pertaining to the family cichlidae and the enviroment . to be promoted by meetings and excursions and publication of notes to members and other organisations when deemd desirable This statement can be found on every cichlid circular

The new rare species concept is a idea that has been put in place and will hopefully save some of the cichlids we have here in Aust and keep them in the cichlidae family

cheers

craig

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Ok Guys,

What I am implying is this. It is ok to put in up to 5 bags of these rare fish. Say 5 per bag @ reserve whatever $ dollars. Now that is fine as you have a 1/5 chance of getting a bag or 2 for a good starter colony. A member puts in something new or rare they can only put 1 bag lot in and they wouldn't put more than say 6 in a bag . My main point is not the money value at all just look at the stuff I have put in at a very cheap price or just ask the members that have brought fish from me they will tell you I gave them a good deal. My point is you get a 1/5 chance to get your hands on these fish which is good for the members. But other rare stuff the members only get one shot at it.

Ok you say the trade table or buy and sell would you like for me to put a huge list in for you guys to read out I dont think so. Instead of up to $20 dollars per fish I put a good reserve on the fish if they go under the wholesale price who cares. I look at it this way 6 fish at $120 on the trade table or 6 fish in a bag reserve price starts at $30 I know which I would chose. Get them through the auction.

Now if I remember right. It was stated that no changes to the auction rules would be considered for 3 months. The committee voted this in I was there as I was on the committee at this time. There were 3 that opposed it. Yes I was one.

Now that this RARE species plan has kicked off the rules have changed.

I'm all for the rare fish thing to go ahead but I am annoyed that changes can be made at the drop of the hat to suit people. Yes it is sometimes a rough and bumpy road on the committee. If a member has a problem as this case then why cant I have my say I do pay my membership. I am financial. If you dont say anything about it how can you fix it. I could winge behind your backs and be negative about it. Or bring it out in the open for a friendly discussion.

Mark stated that this post was titled Rare fish thats true it was. But the other point is putting these in the auction 5 bags at a time a single member is only entitled too 3 and a family 5 only if both present.

It is funny how people are jumping up and down and making false comments about the committee . I have not levelled a thing at anyone or said a nasty thing about anyone. But it is funny that I sit on this side of the fence and watch others taking offense to a problem I just wanted to talk about.

Thats my say and my opinion,

Have a nice day tongue.gif

Brett

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People are taking offense because you made a pointed accusation regardless of how much you feel the need to deny this fact.

You can continue to write essays outlining your point of view or how you just wanted to have a friendly chat about things but with each word your true intent shines through.

Do you really want to find a solution or a happy medium, or do you just want to be right?

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I look at it this way 6 fish at $120 on the trade table or 6 fish in a bag reserve price starts at $30 I know which I would chose. Get them through the auction

Why would you put two different prices on them if your out to help the members? If your only after $30 in the auction why on earth would you charge $120 at the Trade Table.

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