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Worming gone wrong


catcher

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Hi all,

The other day I submitted a post called "Waif fish" I got some good advise from people here (Baz and Fins) and proceded to hunt down the medication advised.

I rang a few LFS to get it but none had what I needed. One of them asked me what the problem was and advised me , without hesitation, that you don't need to get that medication I could just use a puppy "all wormer". He said you just crush one tablet into an amount of the fish's normal food add water so it absorbs it, feed the fish and the stuff goes straight to the source, problem solved. I must say I asked him at least twice, are you sure this is safe and he said he's done it himself and had advised others to do it before. So, I did it.

So far, one 16cm E blue, one 10cm holding female kadango and one 18cm sailfin cat are dead, and most of the others in the tank have a very pink hue to the tops of their heads and down their backs, I'm assuming a chemical reaction of some sort. This LFS is a well respected one in the Sutherland shire and I'm about 9/10th's ready to name it here, but they are sure as hell going to hear from me today, these fish I've lost I've had for 12 mths growing them up, I don't understand why people give advise without being 100% sure, cause if your not sure don't give the advise. Mod's, do I, or can I name it here and will it serve a purpose?

Sorry people, none of you want or need to hear me spit, but I'm upset and ropeable, just had to let it out!

glenn

p.s. I've done a 30% water change and will do another tomorrow in a desperate effort to get rid of the chemicals, I've put a big bag of coconut carbon in the sump, do you think that will help pull out the chemical as well ?

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OMG!

Did they suggest a specific brand? maybe the dosage rate is way higher than what the LFS meant if you substituted brands?

That is so scary, I hope the rest of the fish pull through. sadsmiley02.gif

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The advise was generic, he said drontil, exellpet etc. So it sounds like any or all. I have checked the chemical mix of a few of these and they are all pretty much the same.

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Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear about your loses next time I would use a product called wormrid.

You can get it from Aurburn Aquarium.

It is a very good product I think it is by aquarium products.

I would start doing a few water changes A.S.A.P and place charcoal into your filter too pull out any chemicals in the water from the medication. Then do another water change tommoro.

HTH

Brett

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Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear your troubles. As already suggested, it does sound like an overdose, maybe the food absorbed too much of the chemical?

Anyway, you've done what I would have done, with water changes and carbon. It's just a matter of waiting now.

good luck.

btw: hows the one with the orginal problem?

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As you would expect it's waving to me through the glass as if nothing is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dry.gif

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ooooooh damn thats nasty, i guess the only way to be really sure about advice from an lfs is to put up a post and double check it on the forum. i think alot of us have been stung in one way or form along the way by people who either are malicious or ignorant however, it is not always their fault, cos in the end it is us who put the medication in our own tanks, they don't know everything and neither do we, but if anyone puts up a post on the forum for urgent advise i'm sure someone would know of a good solution. don't forget to us it's a hobby (obsession) and to them its a buisness. i am not disrespecting all the good LFS's out there, i am merely stating how a passing comment in a store could be responsible for sooo much carnage. i used to work in an lfs and know how much customers listen to advice, most customers do not challenge it they just expect you to know. some workers just pass on generic advice that they have heard from a friend of a friend and in the process much is lost in the translation. i have also heard some customers passing on some cheap and nasty advice in shops as well. so once again my main point is to get a second oppinion before medicating etc. otherwise its just a gamble. in my experience i and many others have put up urgent posts and they have had a reply in the first five min. lets keep that up guys.

cheers

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Did they tell you to feed it to all the fish or only the infected ones? Definately sounds like an overdose, and definately not much fun. In his defense though, it sounds like he attempted to do the right thing, since what he "sold" you was a replacement from his shelves, but something you would have picked up at a spermarket.

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Damn...that is a sad story Catcher.

I would be doing what you have done, in an effort to minimalize your losses, with 30% water changes daily and activated carbon in my filters.

Followed by a rant(read: psychotic-Bazerker complaining-customer) at the staff-member who gave you the advice. However, as Katanaone said, the final descision was yours to make so there must be some sharing of the blame...cheaper is not always the way to go, specially when it comes to medication.

Good luck.

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I think the moral here is ... use the right drug, at the right dose by the right route?

All medication can and does have potential adverse effects.

Drontal "Each tablet contains Praziquantel, Pyrantel & Febantel "

So we are dealing with three drugs here, three times the chance of things going wrong. sadsmiley02.gif

Not being critical of you, just the advice you were given. This hobby is full of apalling advice, particularly with respect to medications and often by people who are otherwise quite knowledgable.

As a general principle I don't believe you should treat with more than a single drug at a time. To do so substantially increases the risk, usually without any improved benefit.

Hope your fish recover. smile.gif

Cheers

Brett

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Hi All -

A good reason for treating with more than one drug might be to avoid developing resistance in the critters, however, given the lack of specifics in the advice in this case it may have lead you awry.

I agree with Brett - the amount of poor advice in the hobby is at epic proportions - for general advice re: meds it is always best to get multiple opinions and thus avoid these kinds of problems.

For future reference there is a very good disease article by Dr. George Reclos

at www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/

HTH -

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As you would expect it's waving to me through the glass as if nothing is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dry.gif

Murphy's law!! blink.gif

Keep us posted with the recovery. smile.gif

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Hi Yew

A good reason for treating with more than one drug might be to avoid developing resistance in the critters

I am not sure this is valid. It may be of some relevance in population studies but when we are talking about individuals being treated I doubt it is of much importance.

A far more important contributor to the development of resistance in individuals is the inappropriate use of antibiotics. Incorrect dosage, incomplete treatment courses, chopping and changing half way through treatments, etc. If these boards are indicative of these practices in aquarists, then this is the major problem!! sadsmiley02.gif

I'm such a grouch today LOL.gif

Brett

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Well, three big water changes and no more losses...phewwwwww,

The strange pinkish hue is going from all of them, so I think the big flushout has saved the day. Thanks everyone for the imput and well wishes.

Lessons learnt:

1. Don't believe everything your LFS tells you, get a range of opinions before proceeding.

2. Fish have fish medication not puppy medication. (my fault for following blindly)

3. Sometimes it's better to loose the one fish that your trying to save rather than loose lots of healthy fish in the process. Sacrifice one for the good of all.

cheers

glenn

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Glad to hear things are looking better smile.gif

One thing I'd suggest for the future is a hospital tank. Or even a clean tub ready to go. That way you can treat just the sick one first and observe the effects of the medication before you go ahead and treat the rest of the tank.

But in this hobby we all live and learn. Don't feel too bad about it, we all bugger up from time to time blush.gif

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Hi Glenn,

Sorry about the probs. you had. Getting a range of opinions may not have prevented the problem though and puppy wormers can be successful. I guess you need to trust the source of information which can be hard given that it is difficult to know who are the more experienced fish keepers. In future, use the Big L pig and poultry wormer at a rate of 1 : 7. It is a liquid wormer that is very effective and I know of a large number of very experienced people that use it successfully. The only fish I have ever seen affected badly by it were humpheads. I wouldn't use it on any goby type fish as a precaution...

merjo smile.gif

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G'day Andrea,

Thanks for the tip, but I'm going to stick to fish wormers for fish from now on if you know what I mean. wink.gif

With my luck I'll end up with fish that have a nose with two big holes in the end and instead of pectoral fins they will have wings. laugh.gif

cheers

glenn

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Brett -

I beg to differ - if you treat the worms in your tank with just one drug and a few survive it may be as they have greater resistance than others. These worms can then spread and infect other tanks - so I think the use of multiple antiparasitic drugs is generally preferable.

While I agree it is less likely in non-microbial species - it still occurs in macro organisms. Moreover - an infected tank represents a population of worms - not just one. Look at malaria carrying mosquitos for examples. (there is anecdotal evidence for increased resistance in white spot in aquariums to common white spot cures also).

I agree with you that there are other factors also of some importance smile.gif

HTH wink.gif -

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Hello All,

I think it's a pity for hobbyists to give up on finding non-proprietary treatments. You'll pay a lot more for a label that gives advice for fish. What you pay for is not the drug, just the marketing.

It appears to me that the LFS was trying to help, not trying to profit. Is it possible that there was a misunderstanding of the difference between Drontal and Droncit?

I've treated my fish with Droncit with good results. But, then I also use lawn grub killer, copper sulphate from the nursery, some antiobiotics that I got from the GP, and also a few things I've found lying around.

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