Considering my first planted tank

[BlakeyBoyR]

Im considering starting a blue ram tank, a 24"x16"x12". This would be not only my first non-rift-lake tank, but also my first planted tank. I know nothing about plants, whenever Ive tried to keep them theyve just died on me :/ I have so many questions and I am completely clueless! I have fine sand in the bottom of the tank, will this be ok to grow some plants in because I really cant be bothered trying to scoop all the sand out and re-lay the substrate :/ Is there any way to ensure good plant growth? Do I NEED C02 and fertilisers? Are hang-on-back filters ok for planted tanks as opposed to an internal power filter? Would 1 2' light be ok or would I need 2? What plants are good for beginners? So sorry for all the n00b questions but rocks and mbuna are my thing, not plants and neutral water Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!! If theres any info I havent asked about here but you think I should know then please lay it on me, dont worry about offending me or anything Id just rather know what Im getting myself into before I commit.

[grungefreek]

Ok here we go.

I have fine sand in the bottom of the tank, will this be ok to grow some plants in

Yep, the sand will be fine. They say sometimes that sand gets sulphur pockets in it which if they make it to the surface will kill your fishies, but i reckon you will be fine.

Do I NEED C02 and fertilisers

CO2, no you dont have to have it, it will make plants grow better, but it is not a nessesity. Fertilser, well some people say u can use no ferts and they will grow fine. I think a bottle of ferts will do them good, just dont dose excessivly

Are hang-on-back filters ok for planted tanks

Yep they are fine, i use them for mine. I reckon internals are a pain and dont look as good.taking up space in the tank.

Would 1 2' light be ok or would I need 2

1 2ft light wont be enough, 2 would be better. Light is the most important thing in a planted tank. I think a double fluoro tube will give enough light to grow easy plants reasonably well. Too little light will lead to algae growth, too much, alage growth again, all bout balance. I have tried to get plants to grow in the same size tank as yours with only 1 fluoro. It had alot of algae problems (it had high phosphates which may have caused this) but it was very hard to get uniform light across the whole tank. Plants grew ok at the back under the light (easy to grow plants, swords would not grow, and lower leaves died on stem plants) but nothing would survive in the front. So 2 lights will at least give uniform light across the whole tank.

What plants are good for beginners

Ambulia

wysteria

anubias

amazon swords (require a little more light than the others)

elodea (can be a pain under low light, bottom leaves die off)

Many others, try looking at a few plant databases which ususally say which is easy and hard to grow.

planted tank

tropica

aquaria warehouse

Overall, planted tanks dont have to be high tech (do a google serach for diana walstead), just choose the right species and you will be fine. but once the bug hits, u will want to go high tech

[BlakeyBoyR]

Wow thats some awesome advice! Thanks so much Im eager to learn about how to have a succesful planted tank so replies like the above are SO helpful and welcomed. Thanks again, its really really appreciated

EDIT: In regards to C02, I always wondered how it can be good for the fish in the tank? Fish need oxygenated water to be active and healthy, so how can pumping the tank with C02 not effect their health?

[Johan767]

if you really want the tank to do well you should use some Aquabasis which is a fertilizer that is place underneath the main substrate and proveides the plants with a source of long term nutrition and in regards to the sand being use it may cause your water to become hard and then limits the plants you can keep.

i would recomend using gravel type substrate of diametre 2-3 mm if the grains are too small ie sand then it causes anearobic conditions in the substrate.

hope that helps

[Johan767]

in regards to your question about the CO2 and fish health the ideal way to use CO2 is if you have a controller for the unit to connect it to your lighting systems timer so that the co2 is only on when the lights are on.

WHY?

the reason is that plants during the day when the photosynthesize take co2 and produce oxygen which you know . But at night when the lights are off the stop this process becasue there is no light and they respire which means that the take oxygen and produce co2. and this is the reason why the co2 unit must be switched off at night otherwise there will be extremely low and it could affect the fish.

sorry to ramble on but i would also recomend not using a hang on the back filter becasue it causes too much surface movement of the water thus reducing the efficiency of your co2 unit.

[grungefreek]

Hmm, u can have the Co2 in all the time if you want. Water contains alot of Dissolved oxygen. U would seriously have to have loads and loads and loads of co2 for CO2 to be a problem to DO levels. Johan, u have it wrong about plants releasing Co2 when they repsire. Plants accumulate and use CO2 during the day when light is available. At night, the plants respire which means they release accumulated oxygen. So at night, the water is oxygenated, so CO2 injection would not matter. While i haven’t studied aquatic plants, i would say when they pearl, it means that the plant has the required conc. of CO2, so starts the respiration early even tho it is still light. I have some nice pics in My texts of the Photosynthetic cycle, but i cant find a good one on the net at the moment.

The main issue with CO2 is pH fluctuations. A 10 gallon generally doesn’t have a lot of buffering ability. That is the reason why you should run CO2 less at night. In my ten gal, i leave the Co2 tube in the water, but i dont have it running through my diffuser. This means Co2 levels in the water are a little higher than they would be with no injection, but not enough to swing my pH.

With the HOB, well yes u will lose a little Co2 due to Water movement. But is u have the water level so the water from the filter doesnt have to fall very far, it shouldnt be that bad.

Dont know what "aquabasis" is, never heard of it. Sounds something similar to laterite, and if it is, supplies extra iron to the plants. But with beginner species, it is not necessary, helps, but not necessary. U can always use root tabs if ya have heavy root feeders.

Depending on what sand u have, will determine whether hardness will change. U could test the sand to see what happens if ya like. But many planted aquarists use sand. Yes it could cause problems with anaerobic pockets, hence the potential sulphur buildups.

[BlakeyBoyR]

Hmmm sounds like having a planted tank is a lot more work than I anticipated Id love a pretty planted tank, I admire anyone who can keep them up and running in the long term, however I cant change the sand now and to me it sounds like this sand is going to cause me far too many problems to attempt having a planted tank. Oh well, there goes that idea

[Johan767]

hey grungefreek i considered what you said about the plants respiring meaning they release accumulated oxygen at night but i am sure that the process of respiration means that the plants take in Oxygen at night and produce Carbon Dioxide. the reason for this is if you look at the numerous websites and books like

http://fish.mongabay.com/plant_care.htm

they guve you the equation for photosynthesis:

6C2O + 6H2O + sunlight => C6H12O6 + 6O2

this equation is true during the day and as you can see there is no retained O2 in the equation and at night the plants do not have the required light energy to produce the reaction for photosynthesis to take place and they must rely on oxygen in the water.

they then Consume oxygen and release carbon dioxide and so at night the CO2 levels rise in the aquarium.

PS.

aquabasis is made by JBL and is an undergravel fertilizer that contains all necessary elements for strong plant growth

[Brett4Perth]

Hi Blake,

Don't let this little discussion about the esoterics of planted tanks put you off. They can be easy, you don't need a lot of expensive equipment and with some careful plant selection you can have a great looking tank with minimal fuss.

Grunges initial advice was fine. The sand will be OK, hang-on filter is OK, you don't need CO2, extra light will be better.

That is not to say that with extra light, CO2 injection, less surface agitation and an enriched substrate your plants wouldn't grow better ... but who wants to spend half their week pruning.

Just on the respiration debate. Yes plants do use oxygen at night and release small amounts of CO2, but unless you have a very heavily stocked tank this is not an issue and many aquarists run there CO2 throughout the night with no problems for the fish. If your stocking levels are so high that the fish run out of oxygen at night then you need less fish.

Cheers

Brett

[Clarkey]

I don't know much about actually growing plants but not long after i put a sand substrate in one of my tanks I found out about anearobic conditions if the substrate is too deep. From memory the max safe depth is two inches. Mine is just on the limit and i haven't had any problems in about 18 months.... Apparently you can tell because you can see a dark line in the substrate. Similar to when you dig in sand at the beach and you can see the almost black layer when you get to a certain depth.

It would probably depend on the type of sand as to whether it would raise hardness.

HTH

Alex

[grungefreek]

Howdy again,

Ok looking thru the texts and journals, looks like aquatic plants would be C3 plants. So ill admit, i was wrong with my first statement on O2 release during the night. Brett is correct, they will use either Co2 or O2 at night depending on concetrations of both, with Co2 release dependant on DO concentrations during the night..

Guess who needs to brush up on plant biochemistry before returning to Uni next year

But yeah, with the Do levels much higher than Co2 levels in the tank, it will be fine to keep CO2 going if u have it, but still watch for pH swings.

Yep im with Brett, Planted tanks dont have to be high tech and alot of work. Use easy to grow species and you will be fine. Have fun with it