NLS bucket prices

[Josh]

Is there a price rise coming? Is this your way of letting everyone know?

[mattrox]

Josh, Perhaps it is a topic starter to get the conversation focus back on NLS...

[waruna]

No Josh, no plans for that.

[malrift]

and its attitudes by distributors like this that is causing the demise of many of our lfs. Sorry but if you guys cared about the industry your supplying we might be able to see more of the small lfs stay.

[RD.]

I can only recommend a price. I have no control over pricing.. By law if i'm not happy with a customer, a retailer/reseller in this case I can simply not sell to them..That is all I can do.. I don't even have to give a reason. Retail pricing is completely up to the reseller. So i'm not going to comment on who sells at what price..

ditto

malrift - what is causing the demise of many of the smaller LFS in North America, is exactly what Laurie described ............

"the biggest and cheapest online retailers in our country; that's a more-than-fair benchmark for australian retail pricing. I know of no brick-and-mortar shop that can beat that pricing on a consistant basis (if for no other reason than this particular retailer commits to beating competitors prices by 10% )"

If people want that portion of the industry to be the benchmark for fair retail pricing, then expect the smaller brick & mortar owners to either adapt, or go the way of the Dodo bird. You can't always have your cake & eat it to. You yourself stated this exact thing previously;

I also know lfs that wont even stock the product cause they cant compete with the price offered on internet stores.

If you want a level playing field, then either you have a fixed price system where everyone sells at the exact same price (which is illegal in AU), or you have a situation where prices are not enforced, and you have online vendors such as the one above who will beat any competiors price by 10%.

This is not a situation that distributors have created, no matter how you may personally feel about the subject.

[Chilli Powder]

and its attitudes by distributors like this that is causing the demise of many of our lfs. Sorry but if you guys cared about the industry your supplying we might be able to see more of the small lfs stay.

Actually NO. it's upto the consumers to see the value of your local LFS and not online shops. I hear too many stories of how customers come to stores and ask for assistance/advice on a certain product and then go purchase it online try to save a $1. Then come back to the same store to get more assistance/advice when the product either doesn't work or is faulty. What do you think the shop attitude will be to that?

IF you guys want to see more LFS survive, then support it. Including the increased RRP compared to online costs as they need to add more to cover their additional overheads! simple. It's nothing to do with distributors. That's bullcraP. So don't look online pricing. go to your LFS and buy it from there.

I sat back to watch this thread and wasn't going to comment but seriously, you guys really need to step back and then think about how a business is run. Do you really expect a distributor to get $100K+ worth of goods to be able to supply whole of Australia and for it to sit at a warehouse until its sold and make 10% margin? How much do you think a shop will buy at a time? Few hundred, maybe $1K order a month? Where is the ROI in that? And if you got say even a quarter of that amount of stock and supply ran out, most of the users here would be whinging through their teeth asking why there is no stock? My business was born out of my hobby and when I was distributing NLS in Vic and TAS, there was no way I could have survived solely on that income. So people need to think a little harder about how things work. It's not as simple.

Perhaps I had a little too much expectations of some people here!! very disappointed. I'm not talking about the discussion on pricing but the expectation that any product should be given at near cost or compared to overseas. The freight charges alone from somewhere like US or UK is hideous. Takes 6-8 weeks to get here and you have to pay upfront for the goods, then pay, clearance, customs, document management, permits, freight, storage, security, insurance blah blah..

FORGET about the comments about why the price is at what it is currently. Talk about what you would be happy paying. Not about what you can get it from US or UK.. Would you like to see a lower cost if you were to buy in more bulk? ie if you were to get say 8-buckets at a time, would you be happy paying a lower price per bucket or Kg? Lower profit margin for bigger turnover?

Yes it's an emotional rant..but seriously guys..

Quick question: Why is a pair of Asics Kayano at a local foot locker $269 and at Wiggle at $169.58? Do you get the same service at Wiggle? do you get to try on the shoe to make sure it fits and is comfy. Do you have a guarantee that the product will arrive? so what do you do? You go to a foot locker, try on the shoe and tell the salesman that you need time to think. Go home, logon to the website and order the shoe that you just tried on. Where do you think the local foot locker store will be in 6 months time if everyone did that?

[Link2Hell]

Well said Arj

It is the intangibles that add to the cost of imports

I deal with imports from USA and Europe we get

weekly alerts to changes or fees and it's never reduced

The only real varience is the exchange rate

To hold stock on the shelf your looking at 25% of its

Value per year

[RD.]

Well said Arj.

I'm afraid that until someone has walked in these shoes, they simply won't get it.

This following comment is a constant theme in my neck of the woods as well.

I hear too many stories of how customers come to stores and ask for assistance/advice on a certain product and then go purchase it online try to save a $1. Then come back to the same store to get more assistance/advice when the product either doesn't work or is faulty. What do you think the shop attitude will be to that?

Yet when that LFS closes, one where hobbyists have been possibly going to for decades to find the odd an unusual, they whimper like little school girls and look to blame someone other than themselves. Just like everyone else I like to save $$$ in this hobby wherever I can, but at the same time I do not want my grandchildren to grow up only experiencing big box chain stores and online purchasing via a click of the mouse. While I may pay more for various goods from smaller independent vendors, I appreciate the extra personal service that I receive, and I consider those extra $$$ as an investment for the future.

[malrift]

so givimg a customer a discouint because they place a big order. Which enables them to charge a cheaper price and undercut competition is not a distributor issue. As i stated many small shops either dont havd the working capital nor storage space to place a big order. Therefore no discount and they cant compete in price. Hmmm. And that is the small shops fault. As in the words of mkr bimbo. Yeah.

[malrift]

that is why i do support lfs when i get near one. I have my favourate stores. They are all 100km from where i live. Since dropping out of the distributorship i had due to reasons to no fault of my own. I have become a hobbyist again.

Unfortantely some products i like i can only get from online stores and i have stopped using them because of that. I also sought out alternative products from the lfs i visit.

[RD.]

so givimg a customer a discouint because they place a big order. Which enables them to charge a cheaper price and undercut competition is not a distributor issue. As i stated many small shops either dont havd the working capital nor storage space to place a big order. Therefore no discount and they cant compete in price. Hmmm. And that is the small shops fault.

IMO that would be correct, that's exactly who's fault it is. It's called business. Some excel at what they do & prosper, some don't.

And that is with a caveat attached to some BIG ifs. IF such discounts even take place, and IF the competition is charging a substantially lower price due to such discounts. IME those who get discounts due to volume purchases list their goods at pretty much the same level as everyone else, in some cases much higher due to their overhead. (rent, utilities, staff, etc) And in my case the same volume discounts are available to everyone. Whether or not a store has the storage space, or the capitol, is not my problem. I can also state that in 7+ years I have not a single complaint or even so much as a single question about this policy. It's there in plain black & white for everyone to see, and anyone to take advantage of. It's also not a massive discount, so it really can't affect overall pricing to any large extent. Typically most online vendors can survive off of smaller margins, which is why they sell products for less than a LFS, that have larger overhead.

I have sense your angst over this topic is more personal than anything else. Time to let it go mate.

[malrift]

funny thing it is not personal it is straight fact. I too have worked for an omporter of both live fish and dry goods. I know the costs involved thats why i havent said anything about US price compared to AUD proce.

It is discounts on big orders that make the rich even richer and the little man poorer when it comes to shop size.

I am simply saying if you are going to put it into perspective rather than use a store price that is discounted how about you use a store that has to pay full wholesale price.

Nithing personal in that.

[cobaltcraig]

Wow this thread has gone for 6 pages

Maybe if the question Waruna asked is who is happy to pay $139 per bucket and I dont want to hear from those who arent we could have let this thread die on one page

Cheers

Craig

[E4G13M4N]

so givimg a customer a discouint because they place a big order. Which enables them to charge a cheaper price and undercut competition is not a distributor issue. As i stated many small shops either dont havd the working capital nor storage space to place a big order. Therefore no discount and they cant compete in price. Hmmm. And that is the small shops fault. As in the words of mkr bimbo. Yeah.

I dont get discount for selling NLS foods (so cant say if others do) yet i can still sell for close to the same price as online, so i cant see your argument

[malrift]

are you based in qld E4.

[E4G13M4N]

No South Australia

[malrift]

hmm shipping cost would be very different. The only reason i let my business go. I couldnt absorb shipping cost to qld from melbourne to keep my wholesale price the same as my southern counterparts. By the way nls isnt the only product this happens too.

[waruna]

Craig, this is getting a bit boring now, let's talk about your business law studies, i know you want to

[Josh]

Another NLS discussion heading the way of the Dodo.

[Michiel]

Not only i have to pay two and a half months in advance for stock, I have to pay for GST, overseas freight, customs duty and quarantine clearance costs even before i see a single jar!! GST is again added to the retail price. International and local freight is not cheap, to insurer a container is very expensive, then there are more insurance bills locally. Warehousing, packaging, local and interstate transport costs etc etc are also added. And in the states there are no middlemen like me. Another reason is the difference in population numbers compared with the US, their retail markups are smaller compared with AUS. If you've been to US you will know how cheap food is over their. As you can see it's not as simple as it may seems.

Hi Waruna

You have made a few points above and I have a few comments on the cost factors mentioned above

-Why would you not import on a GST deferred basis?

-There would be no import duty since Australia/US have a free trade agreement

-Quarantine fee per item type is $160.00

-GST is not a cost to you and does not compound

-A 20 foot shipping container would cost less than $3,000 from the US if not $2,000. It has been a while...

-Does it not arrive already on pallets and you would freight by the pallet too using road freight to distributors?

-The dollar appreciated by 20% and has remained fairly high over the last few years

-Population size is not an argument as the goods are already manufactured and not for Australians specifically

I am sorry but I can't see an argument for the high price that might relate to the commented factors. The only increase in cost would be middelmen like you have stated and compounding margins.

I have stopped using NLS about two months ago and now use premium aquaculture brands such as INVE. Prior to this move I have used NLS exclusively for 5 years or so.

[cobaltcraig]

Craig, this is getting a bit boring now, let's talk about your business law studies, i know you want to

Actually Waruna whenever you need some help in that area give me a pm and ill help you out

I do have a degree in that area

Cheers

Craig

[Ageofaquariums]

Hi Guys,

If i can just chime in here. As you know i have been a long time supporter of this forum in multiple incarnations so i hope you can trust what i am saying.

no.1 I do not get any discount above and beyond what any normal LFS receives.

no.2 On the very rare occasion that the Distributor offers a discount ( normally once a year at trade show time ) i have a habit of stocking up when the price is right.

no.3 In regards to NLS pricing every store works on a different markup structure and are free to sell at whatever price they choose.

no.4 The current importer ( TQTF - Waruna ) has done more for the brand in the last 5 years then the previous 3 distributors have done in the last 10 before that. He has had consistently good stock levels , worked tirelessly to build up brand awareness and stocks the complete range available from Pablo. The former distributors wholesale price changed every 6 months and they were constantly out of stock. He also imports NLS without the need for radiation which means you are using the product as Pablo intended ( this was not the case with the last importer ).

also just to clarify we over 600 sqm of warehouse space including a 220sqm retail store & 5 full time staff so i have much larger overheads then the average lfs to keep things in perspective.

If i missed anything i apologize i have been replying to emails for the last 5 hours and getting a tad emotional. Peace be with you my fellow Aquarists.

Ben

[waruna]

Not only i have to pay two and a half months in advance for stock, I have to pay for GST, overseas freight, customs duty and quarantine clearance costs even before i see a single jar!! GST is again added to the retail price. International and local freight is not cheap, to insurer a container is very expensive, then there are more insurance bills locally. Warehousing, packaging, local and interstate transport costs etc etc are also added. And in the states there are no middlemen like me. Another reason is the difference in population numbers compared with the US, their retail markups are smaller compared with AUS. If you've been to US you will know how cheap food is over their. As you can see it's not as simple as it may seems.

Hi Waruna

You have made a few points above and I have a few comments on the cost factors mentioned above

-Why would you not import on a GST deferred basis?

-There would be no import duty since Australia/US have a free trade agreement

-Quarantine fee per item type is $160.00

-GST is not a cost to you and does not compound

-A 20 foot shipping container would cost less than $3,000 from the US if not $2,000. It has been a while...

-Does it not arrive already on pallets and you would freight by the pallet too using road freight to distributors?

-The dollar appreciated by 20% and has remained fairly high over the last few years

-Population size is not an argument as the goods are already manufactured and not for Australians specifically

I am sorry but I can't see an argument for the high price that might relate to the commented factors. The only increase in cost would be middelmen like you have stated and compounding margins.

I have stopped using NLS about two months ago and now use premium aquaculture brands such as INVE. Prior to this move I have used NLS exclusively for 5 years or so.

GST is paid to customs before releasing goods to me.. There are no exceptions. First stop Customs, their clearance and the bill for GST first, then you go to AQIS, once they are happy you go back to customs and pay for GST. In this order, if anyone else is saying otherwise the system has changed since Dec 2011.

You absolutely have no idea how it is packed or shipped to AUS.. And then distributed here, you are taking wild guesses..

Read up how GST is calculated..

Without knowing the weight, place of origin and the time frame for delivery how you got the $2k-$3k figure is beyond me..

Your middlemen comment shows how unrealistic your thinking is..

As i said in my previous reply i'm not here to go through a detailed breakdown of costs.. Simply asking what NLS customers think about bucket prices. Thank you for your input.

[waruna]

Differed GST payment??? What if the shipment happens to land in March, June, Spt or Dec??? I can't even believe i'm explaining these things here.. I'm pointing out that there are other expenses.. you still have to pay your bills, today, tomorrow or next month!

[waruna]

By the way i have listened here, and have contacted a few privately to discuss things in detail and offer help where i can.. Just for the record. So all this was not for nothing.

Thanks again for all the input.