New Life Spectrum or Tetra Colorbits?

[Josh]

I love these arguments

IMHO any food will cloud the water depending on how much food is added and left to rot in the tank.

Food test will always be disputed, I have done my own when NLS became popular and it crapped all over the other two foods I tested it against, but I found go showing people the results I got because i would be forever having to justify the way I tested it. In saying that I always used it as part of my feeding when keeping cichlids.

I haven't used Prestige foods. I have no fish to feed it to, so I cant comment on it.

Josh

[Rod54]

From recollection this was discussed before...

Apparently....In USA...it is not lawful to import ANY animal fat FISH MEAL that hasn't been treated with ethoxyquin

(same end result...your fish food from America contains ethoxyquin)

Manufacturers don't add it to their formula....it's already there in the raw product.....like it or lump it

ie...Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Squid Meal would all contain this preservative

unless the fish food is manufactured elsewhere....but then they would not be able to import it into America???

[Skippy]

cobalt - NLS never added ethoxyquin to any of their formulas, one of the ingredients that was used simply contained some of this substance.

So NLS didn't put the ethoxyquin in directly but one of it's ingredients contained it - you say potato, I say potato..........

C'mon Craig don't speak ill of NLS an angel gets its wings everytime someone uses it and running the RD. alert signal isn't cheap you know.

[RD.]

malrift - I clearly stated; "NLS never added ethoxyquin to any of their formulas, one of the ingredients that was used simply contained some of this substance."

Apparently....In USA...it is not lawful to import ANY animal fat that hasn't been treated with ethoxyquin

That's actually not true, in the USA, by law only "fish meal" is required to be treated with ethoxyquin. (see article below for more info)

Below is an excerpt from an article on fish nutrition that was written by the manufacturer of New Life Spectrum, someone who has been keeping & breeding fish (by the tens of thousands) for the past 40 yrs.

Preservatives and Why They Are Necessary

Mentioning the topic of pet food preservatives seems to cause a lengthy debate in almost any pet-keeping circle, especially if the use of ethoxyquin comes up.

The whole ethoxyquin scare started from a single rumour, which became so blown out of proportion via internet chat forums that it eventually turned into another urban myth. The only reason that this preservative ever came into question, was due to a study performed on rats back in 1987 where the dose level of 5,000 ppm ethoxyquin, which is FAR higher than approved levels in pet food, suggested a carcinogenic potential. Ethoxyquin has since been blamed for a myriad of problems, none of which have ever been proven.

Considering the outcry over this preservative by dog owners worldwide, one would think that by now there would be a plethora of data/studies that actually proved that this preservative caused at least some type of long-term health issue in pets. There is not a single documented case where ethoxyquin used at approved levels has been found to cause any type of long term negative health condition in a dog, cat, fish, or otherwise. One would think that with all of the hysterical anti-ethoxyquin crusades that have taken place over the past 20 yrs or so that at least one non-biased study would be able to prove that this substance can cause serious long term health issues in pets, even when used at appropriate or approved levels. Yet to date, there is not a single shred of scientific evidence that supports such a view.

The fact is that this single preservative has probably saved countless lives of pets from suffering from serious health issues caused by rancid fat.

Without preservatives the oil found in fish food would become rancid in very short order. What many hobbyists do not understand is that all fish meal based products will contain ethoxyquin. There is simply no getting around that. The manufacturer may have ethoxyquin listed on their label as a preservative, yet may, or may not even be adding this ingredient at their end. New Life International Inc. does not directly add ethoxyquin to any of our foods.

The United States Coast Guard regulations (Subpart 148.04 -9) requires any vessel entering US waters that contains fish meal, to have the fish meal preserved with ethoxyquin. This is required by law for the safety and health issues that can arise if fish meal is not preserved properly. I personally know of no manufacturer that makes their own in-house fish meal on site, which means that if fish meal is being used in a food, any type of pet food, there will be at least a small amount of ethoxyquin in the final formula.

When used accordingly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using ethoxyquin as a preservative. The FDA approved the use of ethoxyquin as a preservative for both humans and pets, and for decades the maximum amount allowed in pet food was 150 PPM.

In July 1997, after assessing the results of the latest study on ethoxyquin, the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine asked that the maximum amount of the preservative be voluntary reduced to 75 parts per million in complete dog foods. The FDA stated that the earlier limit of 150 ppm "may not provide an adequate margin of safety in lactating female dogs and possibly puppies." The reason being that lactating female dogs generally consume far more food (2-3 times) than non lactating females, hence an increased level of every substance in any food will occur. The study showed ethoxyquin levels of 150 ppm had no adverse health effects at maintenance levels, but that by reducing the max amount to 75 ppm it would create an additional safety margin for lactating females and their puppies.

To date, the FDA has found no scientific or medical evidence that ethoxyquin used at approved levels is injurious to human or animal health. Also, the FDA has found no documentation of the claims of harm to any animal. Not even one.

Please keep in mind that almost everything and anything can become toxic at high enough levels, including fat-soluble vitamins. No nutritionist would recommend completely eliminating vitamin A, B, D, E and K from the diet just because high levels can be toxic, yet this exact type of logic is what's used when most people discuss preservatives such as ethoxyquin. When used in small amounts to prevent rancidity, preservatives are valuable and important components of the diet.

..........................

I recall a discussion on another AU based forum a few yrs back, where someone was developing a locally made AU food, and was spouting off about all of the horrible problems associated with preservatives, including ethoxyquin. They went on about how natural their new food was, and how it only contained safe natural ingredients, one of them being Naturose astaxanthin. What the eggspurt didn't realize (until I sent them a PM) was that while Naturose is indeed made from a natural micro algae, the makers of Naturose (Cyanotech Corp) preserve their formula with none other than ethoxyquin. Why do they use this preservative? Because when dealing with foodstuffs that contain high fat content it has proven to be one of the safest/best preservatives on the market, and has withstood the test of time over the past 50 or so odd years.

I have no issue with cobalt Craig or anyone else discussing this subject, but let's at least discuss it on an intelligent level, and not base the information from snippets taken off of various websites, posted by uninformed alarmists.

I'm not too sure what this has to do with NLS vs Tetra ColorBits, but just to show what a good sport I am I'll chime in on the following as well.

Also it has been proven that the waste from prestige is far less than the waste from other food products.

This was done by having bare bottom tanks that were side by side one fed on prestige and the other by another brand. The tank fed on prestige was far less than the tank fed on the other brand for the same period of time.

Without knowing how this controlled study (which I'm sure (?) was performed by a non-biased accredited 3rd party that had no vested interest in the outcome, and has been published in a peer reviewed journal) was actually performed - repeating it over & over again isn't going to make it any more believable. All waste is not equal, and all waste is not in a solid form. It can take some fairly sophisticated equipment to accurately determine the total waste excreted from a fish, that has been fed any given food. Using protein as an example, which are composed of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen, if excessive quantities are fed, much of that protein may be lost to the environment. Most nitrogen (protein) is excreted as ammonia (NH3) by the gills of fish, and only 10% is lost as solid wastes.

If you have a link to the journal that published the results of this particular feed trial, please post it as I'm always interested in reading these types of things. Thanks.

[kasm]

Hi Malrift,

Can you tell me where I can buy prestige food in NSW, since you like it so much I want to try it now.

Thanks

Kevin

[cobaltcraig]

cobalt - NLS never added ethoxyquin to any of their formulas, one of the ingredients that was used simply contained some of this substance.

So NLS didn't put the ethoxyquin in directly but one of it's ingredients contained it - you say potato, I say potato..........

C'mon Craig don't speak ill of NLS an angel gets its wings everytime someone uses it and running the RD. alert signal isn't cheap you know.

Lol Skippy

I am not speaking ill of anyone or anything Just opening debate

RD Is a authuority on Spectrum as he is the Distributor in Canada he knows what he is talking about

I am a breeder looking for whats best for my fish so all input in valuable

and I am also speaking about my findings in my fish room

Cheers

Craig

[Skippy]

Also it has been proven that the waste from prestige is far less than the waste from other food products.

This was done by having bare bottom tanks that were side by side one fed on prestige and the other by another brand. The tank fed on prestige was far less than the tank fed on the other brand for the same period of time.

Without knowing how this controlled study (which I'm sure (?) was performed by a non-biased accredited 3rd party that had no vested interest in the outcome, and has been published in a peer reviewed journal) was actually performed - repeating it over & over again isn't going to make it any more believable. All waste is not equal, and all waste is not in a solid form. It can take some fairly sophisticated equipment to accurately determine the total waste excreted from a fish, that has been fed any given food. Using protein as an example, which are composed of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen, if excessive quantities are fed, much of that protein may be lost to the environment. Most nitrogen (protein) is excreted as ammonia (NH3) by the gills of fish, and only 10% is lost as solid wastes.

If you have a link to the journal that published the results of this particular feed trial, please post it as I'm always interested in reading these types of things. Thanks.

I'm no scienctician but I'd be interested in reading some of the comparable journal articles about NLS studies if you can provide the links.

[RD.]

Craig, by your very first comment in this discussion it seems quite obvious what your motive was/is.

Prestige Foods

I have moved all my fish over to this Australian made food and could not be happier

I dont have any fish with wasting anymore MAybe the food is fresher because its made here and distibutated quickly as such is the demand

After all over products come from over seas it can take 3 months by sea-freight to get here and god only knows how old it was once its put onto boats

Maybe thats why some are full of perservatives

Just my Thoughts

Craig

Just so there's no misunderstandings, I have nothing financially to gain by posting in this discussion, I do so only in an attempt to educate the uneducated, and/or inform, those who are misinformed. The fact remains that ALL fish foods contain preservatives, even the one that you currently could not be happier with. It doesn't seem so long ago that you spoke the same way about NLS. lol

[RD.]

I'm no scienctician but I'd be interested in reading some of the comparable journal articles about NLS studies if you can provide the links.

Unlike Malrift, I never stated that any such feed trials exist, at least none that have been published.

Typically there will never be feed trials such as suggested made public due to the politics involved.

The pet food industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, and there is far too much at stake than just the results from some bickering on online forums. For a starter, the funding for such feed trials would have to come from a non-biased source, outside of the pet food industry itself. (which obviously includes all manufacturers) So who would pay for this, and why? Certainly there are feed trials that have involved NLS, as well as many other successful internationally known brands, but those running the feed trials aren't about to commit political suicide by publishing the results, including manufacturer names.

[malrift]

QUOTE

I'm no scienctician but I'd be interested in reading some of the comparable journal articles about NLS studies if you can provide the links.

Unlike Malrift, I never stated that any such feed trials exist, at least none that have been published.

Rd this feeding test were done by breeders in the industry that love there fish and feed your food as well. I was a massive supporter of nls and still think it is a great food no doubts in my mind but in my honest opinion I think the Aussie product is showing just as good results.

I will never put Nls or other foods down but as a breeder of quality fish I want to use the products to continue the quality and this Aussie made Prestige has won me over and the fact that is Australian made and owned is a bonus.

[malrift]

Every breeder has the right to trial any food they want and compare it too their usual brand and this is what has been stated nothing more and nothing less. In fact I have even had one shop comment on the waste left compared to their usual food.

All I am saying is what people are finding and comments we are recieving about the Australian product.

[malrift]

malrift - I clearly stated; "NLS never added ethoxyquin to any of their formulas, one of the ingredients that was used simply contained some of this substance."

Ok fair enough but if it is on the label it is in the product is it not?

It was not used in the product but one of the ingredients conatining it was isnt this the same thing?

[Rod54]

Apparently....In USA...it is not lawful to import ANY animal fat that hasn't been treated with ethoxyquin

That's actually not true, in the USA, by law only "fish meal" is required to be treated with ethoxyquin.

Whatever (potato/patarto) ....it's in there

Never tried "prestige food"...but I will now!

[Josh]

Does anyone really care! We will all use what ever food we like to feed to our fish and what we can afford to feed them. Seriously, how many times will we see the "ethoxyquin" argument thrown up? Its shown on the label, but it isnt added, what difference does it make? Its shown on the friggin label, assume its in there and don't use it if you don't like it.

I always love to see two distributors fighting for their foods. The argument, to me at least, would mean more if it was hobbiest, with no commercial interests in the food, arguing the point!

Josh

[cobaltcraig]

Craig, by your very first comment in this discussion it seems quite obvious what your motive was/is.

Prestige Foods

I have moved all my fish over to this Australian made food and could not be happier

I dont have any fish with wasting anymore MAybe the food is fresher because its made here and distibutated quickly as such is the demand

After all over products come from over seas it can take 3 months by sea-freight to get here and god only knows how old it was once its put onto boats

Maybe thats why some are full of perservatives

Just my Thoughts

Craig

Just so there's no misunderstandings, I have nothing financially to gain by posting in this discussion, I do so only in an attempt to educate the uneducated, and/or inform, those who are misinformed. The fact remains that ALL fish foods contain preservatives, even the one that you currently could not be happier with. It doesn't seem so long ago that you spoke the same way about NLS. lol

RD

I Havent said a bad word about NLS at all please check all your facts

I will say NLS ,HBH,OSI ,SERA are all equal in performance One food isnt better than the other

What always gives me a laugh is its the same old crowd that has to jump onto the net to sprout how good one food is better than the other Everyone on the various web sites are now laughing at the way the people jump in as experts lol

I have no financial gain to promote one food or the other unlike yourself being the distributor of a product

Anyway as a hobbiest only I am happy with what I use and I will promote that until I find something better

Until that time I will be using Prestige foods and anyone who wants to support a Aussie made Product will do the same

If anyone ask me I will say try all the names above and see what works for you But value for money it will be prestige

Cheers

Craig

[RD.]

Craig - what could a Canadian dist possibly gain financially by posting on an online forum to a bunch of Aussies?

If your dist mate is now selling Prestige food, you have far more to gain by promoting it, than I do NLS.

I'm sure that there are those here who don't realize all of the behind the scenes goings on.

As I stated previously, it doesn't seem so long ago that you were singing the same praise for NLS.

For myself, I was promoting NLS long before I had any vested interest in it, and seeing as I know a thing or two about fish nutrition, and as you stated I am an 'authority' on NLS, who better to respond to a question regarding just that?

Malrift - no worries, if you're happy with what you are now feeding then carry on. I was simply making sure that no one was being led astray with regards to preservatives causing disease etc in their fish. Some people have a vivid imagination, but can never provide anything factual to back up their little fantasies.

And while it may seem like splitting hairs, there is a distinct difference between a manufacturer that adds ethoxyquin (or whatever) to their food at 200+ ppm as the main preservative, and one that has an ingredient that contains the same preservative that works out to a total of 20 ppm. (1/10th the amount) It's like comparing the health aspects of someone sitting in the same room as you whilst smoking a cig, to a neighbour sitting outside on his front porch 200+ feet away from you & doing the same. The latter will be so diluted as to have no effect on you whatsoever.

Almost everything and anything can become toxic at high enough levels, including many vitamins, but that doesn't mean that everyone should stop taking vitamins, or that we should stop supplying those same vitamins to our fish.

Only an alarmist, or those with ulterior motives, would suggest something so ludicrous.

HTH

[RD.]

And seeing as everyone wants to dissect ingredients, how about posting an ingredient list & guaranteed analysis.

Or is that top secret as well?

Thanks

[cobaltcraig]

Craig - what could a Canadian dist possibly gain financially by posting on an online forum to a bunch of Aussies?

If your dist mate is now selling Prestige food, you have far more to gain by promoting it, than I do NLS.

I'm sure that there are those here who don't realize all of the behind the scenes goings on.

As I stated previously, it doesn't seem so long ago that you were singing the same praise for NLS.

RD Again I will state I havent said a bad thing about NLS

My mate is the distributor of Prestige foods

See IF you go back to the first question that was asked was which one is better Tetrabits or Spectrum

i have only offered a alternative to that That I am having a great deal of success with

As the Canadian Distributor what do you have to gain here in Aust Nothing but helping out your friends you have out here and there is nothing wrong with that at all

But as a expert in fish feeding ,nutrition , ect you are no different for me and your opinions have no more strength or weight than mine on fish keeping or feeding

For myself, I was promoting NLS long before I had any vested interest in it, and seeing as I know a thing or two about fish nutrition, and as you stated I am an 'authority' on NLS, who better to respond to a question regarding just that?

Thats Good Mate I have no issues with that either If you believe in something go into bat for it As I am doing for a alternative product

Malrift - no worries, if you're happy with what you are now feeding then carry on. I was simply making sure that no one was being led astray with regards to preservatives causing disease etc in their fish. Some people have a vivid imagination, but can never provide anything factual to back up their little fantasies.

And while it may seem like splitting hairs, there is a distinct difference between a manufacturer that adds ethoxyquin (or whatever) to their food at 200+ ppm as the main preservative, and one that has an ingredient that contains the same preservative that works out to a total of 20 ppm. (1/10th the amount) It's like comparing the health aspects of someone sitting in the same room as you whilst smoking a cig, to a neighbour sitting outside on his front porch 200+ feet away from you & doing the same. The latter will be so diluted as to have no effect on you whatsoever.

Almost everything and anything can become toxic at high enough levels, including many vitamins, but that doesn't mean that everyone should stop taking vitamins, or that we should stop supplying those same vitamins to our fish.

Only an alarmist, or those with ulterior motives, would suggest something so ludicrous.

HTH

I will leave that one alone and let others make up there opinion

Cheers

Craig

[cobaltcraig]

And seeing as everyone wants to dissect ingredients, how about posting an ingredient list & guaranteed analysis.

Or is that top secret as well?

Thanks

Why would you want to know that after all you have the best product according to all your previous corrospondense

In business its best not to attack a competitors product this is seen as counter productive and not proffessional

My 2cents worth is the following NLS,HBH,OSI,SERA,Hikari AND Prestige the new boy on the block are as good as each other and all perform well

But the added bonus with using Prestige is

Value for Money

And Australian Made

and with the quality being equal to the above the choice for me is simple

Craig

[huzzy]

Guys, lets keep it civil.

Any further snide remarks or inflammatory comments will be deleted.

Everyone has the right to express their opinion and quiz whoever about whatever product, but RD's responses have been civil, polite and straight forward.

Whether you like NLS or not, RD has a lot of useful and factual information that benefit all of us fish keepers/breeders.

[RD.]

Hi Craig,

I was simply curious, I didn't think I was going to ruffle any feathers by simply asking about an ingredient list, and/or guaranteed analysis, nor have I attacked anyone's product. (nor do I have any intention in doing so) Am I not allowed to enquire about such details, even when you ask for specifics from me?

I think you will find with me that I can discuss this entire topic (fish nutrition) without ever naming names, or pointing fingers. It's not always easy when actual brand names are being discussed, but I try.

Neil

[CThompson]

The current thread was started about a comparison between NLS and Tetra Colourbits. To this end I gave my honest opinion, one that was formed through informed investigation and research about the food and the man who makes the food. Then personal experience over a number of years has born out the decision/opinion.

This new food "Prestige" has been brought to the thread.

I personally have never seen this food, nor have I read any information or been told anything that can proven (or otherwise) other than it being Australian made.

I too would like to see the ingredients list.

RD has posted up the NLS and Tetra Colourbits ingredients which I found a pretty interesting side-by-side comparison as it clearly showed NLS the better.

I'm all for buying Australian, but only if the Australian made product is equal to or better than the competing product. I will argue the benifits of buying Australian made, but tell me all the Australians reading these comments, where are the cloths made that you are currently wearing? Probably China (mine are King Gee - the Australian company recently sold to OS interests).

I've got a near 2000 litre mixed Tanganyikan tank with such fish as Tropheus (K1, RR and Duboisi) as well as confirmed "meat" eaters such as Calvus and brichardi. To this tank I have feed for years as a dry food, exclusively as a staple diet, NLS. I KNOW the quality of NLS. Over the years dozens and dozens of people have seen this tank.

Prove to me Prestige is the equal or better than NLS. It will be a very hard sell to change my mind, but it is open to new information, so please if adding to this thread create a constructive addition and I will read it with an open (but sceptical) mind

The “preservative” angle is just a smokescreen and is clouding the issue.

Craig

[auritus]

I have been watching this debate with interest and have resisted posting in it for the risk of being seen as another crony for the Prestige Foods range.

I do not claim to be a professional when it comes to the diagnosis of food products and the testing result analysis of these products.

What I can say is this, I have been a successful breeder of aquarium fish species ranging from African Cichlids through to Australian Native species for the past 40 years, and all I am concerned with is the health and well-being of my fish.

I make my own frozen foods but I also have used a wide range of manufactured foods including Tetra, NLS, and H.B.H etc.

When it comes to using new manufactured foods I am always hesitant by way of concern for the dietary needs for my fish and the resulting effects of using a new product in their diets.

This led to my being a little dubious of trailing the Prestige Food range when approached about 3 months ago. I am not going to discuss or quantify any of the foods I have used but I will say this; since I started trialling the product range all of my fish are showing an equal, and in some species, a higher level of colour, health and there has definitely been a dramatic increase in the breeding cycles of all fish tested. It has helped me to successfully gain spawns from species that had previously proven a challenge such as the Wild Caught Frontosa, Chilotilapia Euchilus and Orange Spot Bristlenose catfish to name a few.

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that this is the result of using this food, I can say that there have been NO adverse effects from them either. This combined with the lower costs have certainly led me to seriously consider taking the food on as the main stay for my breeding tanks as well as for all my personal species tanks.

Add to this that the food is Australian made and all I can see is a definite improvement on the bottom line in my fish room budget and in these economically challenging times, what more can we breeders/keepers want, Happy and healthy fish as well as savings on the monthly feed bills.

When it comes down to it, Isn’t that what it is all about?

[CThompson]

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that this is the result of using this food, I can say that there have been NO adverse effects from them either.

How do you know

You just can't tell from looking at the fish. And certainly not after using it for three months.

If you have a container there, copy out the ingredients list for us to read please.

Congradulations on your first post I see you only joined ACE yesterday, what made you sign up?

You wrote out a good post.

[huzzy]

How do you know

The same way you know NLS doesn't do the same for your fish. Observation.

CThompson, in all fairness, you cannot justify your reasons for endorsing one product and then question someone else for using those exact same methods to justify theirs.

I think im going to enjoy being a (neutral) referee in this debate.