Bruce Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 See my above post Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed1 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 See my above post Bruce Sorry Bruce I missed the bit about the individual switches! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventralis Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you dont lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwater Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce, I cant wait to see this completed....going to be awesome by what I have read so far....!! Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you dont lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. Just curious on this reply as it has me a little confused.....you suggest using large bulkeads without a weir, fair enough having the return as a spray bar with it either coming through bottom or side of tank, but are you suggesting just having an open bulkhead in the tank with no weir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 I am also confused? Could you please clarify your question a little. The weirs will all be covered by a latex background anyway so you won't see them Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunnel Rat Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you dont lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. I am totally with Ventralis on this one I think weirs are now so old school I was thinking very hard about removing my weir when I set up the 5x2x2 second hand tank it was just time that stopped me wish I did it now. Ok what would you get out of just having two nice 50mm bulkheads instead of two weirs 1..More room 2..It will make the fitting of a latex B/G so much easier just one piece not three. 3..It makes the tank look so much smoother in my opinion. What is the against I am not sure I cannot think of one if you can please enlighten me. I have herd the one "what if they block up" Block up man I think I have more of a chance of my weir blocking up then two 50mm B/H. Ventralis has just built a kick a s s 6x2.5x2.5 tank real top notch (by the way little grass hopper good job great tank) with two 50mm B/H and a 9000L/H pump the water level just sits on top of the bulk heads and makes no noise.I am sure Ventralis will tell as more about his set up with a massive sump with 14L of matrix & 800+bio-balls he also runs a FX5 for all the mechanical side of things I have just planed my back glass for my new tank it will have 2x50mm holes for overflow to sump with 50mm bulkheads 2x 30mm holes for the 2260 inlets 2x 25mm holes for the outlets 1x spraybar from sump 1x adjustable nozzle from 2260. Bruce this is just my opinion maybe something to think about. thx Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you don’t lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. I think Ventralis means at the top of the tank. Two large bulkheads with strainers on them plumbed down into the sump. Fine for a tank with a low flow rate. The other problem with this design is they don't drain as quickly as tanks with a weir also in blackouts the tank level will drop allot more than with weirs meaning a bigger sump will be required. Bruce, I am looking at doing the same thing, but on a concrete floor. I was thinking about the noise of sumps. No matter what you do they are still nosier than a canister filter. Its ok if in a fishroom etc but try sleeping or or watching TV next to a tank with a sump. You will get use to it but what about your family and or visitors. What I am thinking of doing is having 4 holes in the base of the tank. 2 for inputs into a canister filter and two for outputs. While I have a few reservations about this idea it means no or little noise, no weirs, tank can go against the wall etc etc. The other idea was to do as Ventralis said but with canisters not a sump. I hate my sump. It does a great job but the noise and you can't take it outside to clean. As for pumps I think two is a must. Make sure you have taps to shut one off in the event of maintenance or failure. Also don’t skimp on pumps. Remember they can be external to the sump if you prefer. Generally the more you spend on a pump the more economical long lasting and quieter they are. 2..It will make the fitting of a latex B/G so much easier just one piece not three. Don't you mean five..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you dont lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. I am totally with Ventralis on this one I think weirs are now so old school I was thinking very hard about removing my weir when I set up the 5x2x2 second hand tank it was just time that stopped me wish I did it now. Ok what would you get out of just having two nice 50mm bulkheads instead of two weirs 1..More room 2..It will make the fitting of a latex B/G so much easier just one piece not three. 3..It makes the tank look so much smoother in my opinion. What is the against I am not sure I cannot think of one if you can please enlighten me. I have herd the one "what if they block up" Block up man I think I have more of a chance of my weir blocking up then two 50mm B/H. Ventralis has just built a kick a s s 6x2.5x2.5 tank real top notch (by the way little grass hopper good job great tank) with two 50mm B/H and a 9000L/H pump the water level just sits on top of the bulk heads and makes no noise.I am sure Ventralis will tell as more about his set up with a massive sump with 14L of matrix & 800+bio-balls he also runs a FX5 for all the mechanical side of things I have just planed my back glass for my new tank it will have 2x50mm holes for overflow to sump with 50mm bulkheads 2x 30mm holes for the 2260 inlets 2x 25mm holes for the outlets 1x spraybar from sump 1x adjustable nozzle from 2260. Bruce this is just my opinion maybe something to think about. thx Rat So the weirs are just drilled up the top of the tank and the water just flows into them? I understand 100% what you are getting at, but wouldn't the water falling 60cm into the hole make it flow a big faster? I agree, I would rather do the tank b/ground in one large piece. There will be a lot of rock in the tank and the weirs probably won't be that noticeable, especially when disguised. The one problem is the tank has already been ordered and I can't change that now. I just prefer weirs, I have sussed out how they work properly and am confident in using them. Also, I would have to have returns that go into the tank, at the moment they are all in the weir aswell. I would love to see the tank ventralis and especially all the plumbing and how you have the B/H's running. As well as the sump. What pump are you running on there ventralis? Rat, would also love to see another journal with your new tank. One question though, you said you had 50mm holes and 50mm B/H's. How can you have the same size bulkhead as the hole? Aren't they usually smaller? Bruce just wondering is there a reason that you are using weirs on this tank? I think a show piece tank as yours is going to be I would go large bulkheads with a return spray bar. Most of the plumbing wont be seen and you don’t lose any tank space with ugly weirs in the corner. I think Ventralis means at the top of the tank. Two large bulkheads with strainers on them plumbed down into the sump. Fine for a tank with a low flow rate. The other problem with this design is they don't drain as quickly as tanks with a weir also in blackouts the tank level will drop allot more than with weirs meaning a bigger sump will be required. Bruce, I am looking at doing the same thing, but on a concrete floor. I was thinking about the noise of sumps. No matter what you do they are still nosier than a canister filter. Its ok if in a fishroom etc but try sleeping or or watching TV next to a tank with a sump. You will get use to it but what about your family and or visitors. What I am thinking of doing is having 4 holes in the base of the tank. 2 for inputs into a canister filter and two for outputs. While I have a few reservations about this idea it means no or little noise, no weirs, tank can go against the wall etc etc. The other idea was to do as Ventralis said but with canisters not a sump. I hate my sump. It does a great job but the noise and you can't take it outside to clean. As for pumps I think two is a must. Make sure you have taps to shut one off in the event of maintenance or failure. Also don’t skimp on pumps. Remember they can be external to the sump if you prefer. Generally the more you spend on a pump the more economical long lasting and quieter they are. Ben; you raised some more very valid points with the B/H's. The thought of the sump flooding from back siphon frightens me, it has happened to me before and I'd hate for it to happen again. I will be sure to install check valves this time round. Good call on the concrete floor, the extra re enforcement was a PITA to install and the thought of this much weight sitting on a wooden floor will always be in the back of my mind. Still, I was instructed to do this by a structural engineer who is also coming back to look at my work before I put any real weight on it. Although he said use no mortar I think I'd rather. I find that if you do a couple of things you can get the sumps relatively silent. The first thing is the weir, most people use dursos to raise the water level however I prefer to pack the weir with coarse foam, I don't like standpipes though since my last 6ft tank. Also, the foam is a good prefilter. The next step is to submerse the filter inputs from the tank, in they are into the filter there is not as much noise from water splashing and making bubbles. I am using a matrix filter which reduces running water aswell. The pump is also important to keep the noise down, I am fairly confident the Sedras will be able to do this. I agree on the idea of two, not sure why I would need taps on it though? To stop backsiphon? The Sedras seem to be a good pump, reputable name and quite quiet. When the pumps get external to the sump they also get higher flow rates don't they? Also the sump would need drilling which I haven't ordered. Thanks for the lengthy replies guys Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunnel Rat Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I think Ventralis means at the top of the tank. Two large bulkheads with strainers on them plumbed down into the sump. Fine for a tank with a low flow rate. The other problem with this design is they don't drain as quickly as tanks with a weir also in blackouts the tank level will drop allot more than with weirs meaning a bigger sump will be required. Bruce, I am looking at doing the same thing, but on a concrete floor. I was thinking about the noise of sumps. No matter what you do they are still nosier than a canister filter. Its ok if in a fishroom etc but try sleeping or or watching TV next to a tank with a sump. You will get use to it but what about your family and or visitors. What I am thinking of doing is having 4 holes in the base of the tank. 2 for inputs into a canister filter and two for outputs. While I have a few reservations about this idea it means no or little noise, no weirs, tank can go against the wall etc etc. The other idea was to do as Ventralis said but with canisters not a sump. I hate my sump. It does a great job but the noise and you can't take it outside to clean. As for pumps I think two is a must. Make sure you have taps to shut one off in the event of maintenance or failure. Also don’t skimp on pumps. Remember they can be external to the sump if you prefer. Generally the more you spend on a pump the more economical long lasting and quieter they are. You have some good points Ben that do need to be considered when doing a tank with bulk heads but can be very easily over come.I would not call 9000 L/h low flow and this is done running both bulk heads into one pipe to the sump.If you want a faster flow have them running into a drip system singularly each B/H 11,000 L/H no problem or add a third B/H. Yes you do need a big sump bigger the better Noise that was one thing I could not get over with ventralis set up it was so quite the only real noise I could hear was the spraybar return. Good advise with the pump. Don't you mean five..... No I mean three I have seen people do the hole weir (five) with the latex but hate the look so unnatural square rock.I just did the front covered the inside with a half log. What I am thinking of doing is having 4 holes in the base of the tank. 2 for inputs into a canister filter and two for outputs. While I have a few reservations about this idea it means no or little noise, no weirs, tank can go against the wall etc etc. The other idea was to do as Ventralis said but with canisters not a sump. I hate my sump. It does a great job but the noise and you can't take it outside to clean. I think you better rethink this idea you will have low flow rate and maybe not the best for the canister.There will be great pressure at the base of the tank a lot for outlets from the canisters to handle. My back glass thx Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventralis Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Bruce to answer a few of your questions I have 2 50mm holes drilled using 40mm bulkheads the return is 25 mm with large holes on a 4ft spraybar. I use a Laguna 9000lph pump. You are welcome to have a look at it any time just pm me when you are in the Bankstown area I guarantee when you see you will ditch your weirs idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Thanks, I thought you might be using the 40mm bulkheads. Do the two of them deal with the water ok? If I am in the area I would love to come and have a look, thanks for the offer. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I would not call 9000 L/h low flow Thats for sure. What I was saying is "they are fine for a tank with a low flow rate".... Hence not this setup. Noise that was one thing I could not get over with ventralis set up it was so quite the only real noise I could hear was the spraybar return. Good advise with the pump. Would like to see some pics. Take your camera with you next time Rat. We all want to see. Don't you mean five..... No I mean three I have seen people do the hole weir (five) with the latex but hate the look so unnatural square rock.I just did the front covered the inside with a half log. Fair enough..... Depends on the rock work in the tank I guess. I think you better rethink this idea you will have low flow rate and maybe not the best for the canister.There will be great pressure at the base of the tank a lot for outlets from the canisters to handle. I hear ya...... I have seen a few tanks done this way so it must work but it does worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Bruce are there pictures of the new foundation you added to the house? I'm interested in seeing how you strengthened the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Not yet sorry, I have stacked them up without mortar but they are all crooked and I'm not happy with them. Although not recommended to mortar I am going to aswell as putting it on a cement foundation. Edit: Painted the tank area this evening. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunnel Rat Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I would not call 9000 L/h low flow Thats for sure. What I was saying is "they are fine for a tank with a low flow rate".... Hence not this setup. Hey Ben Sorry for the miss understanding with our two posts I just noticed the times of the posts we would of been writing the posts at the same time I went over to take shots of his new tank & ray but in the same room he has a sky light which made the glare real bad.So I will return at night soon. Some years back I cut a weir from a 4x2x2 tank added a 2217 to the two holes in the base but I noticed that it did not flow as much as it should of. I thought because the flow was coming out of the tank at the base under pressure it would not affect it going back in but I was wrong. Bruce take him up on that offer he is on 2 weeks holidays good time to go.I know you will love the over tank of fish he has they are one of your fav (don't tell him ventralis lol) cya Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Bruce take him up on that offer he is on 2 weeks holidays good time to go.I know you will love the over tank of fish he has they are one of your fav (don't tell him ventralis lol) cya Rat I'm listening Here are some very overdue pictures for the Journal. The stand got delivered tonight. These are some pictures of it. We had to take the flyscreen and front door off to get it through and then it still scraped. I was very relieved to get it in. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hi Bruce, Has the company you got to make the stand given you an idea of how much weight it should hold? To be honest I am a little worried about the material they have used, Angle just doesn't look to me as if it will be strong enough. I remember you saying one company was charging $660 for the stand. I don't think this is the stand you went with but do you know what material they were going to use? Tubed steel? Hopefully there is a metal basher here that will be able to let us know what they think. If not I will ask a mate to log on and have a look at it. Can you post some pictures of the base, or is the base the same as the top? Are you going to take it back outside now and undercoat and paint it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Hi Ben They did not give me the amount it was able to hold. There is still a few things to add to the stand that will help its strength. The first is plywood sheeting on both ends, this will help a LOT to keep it rigid. These people had the same design but charged $100 less. Exactly the same stand. I was always planning to use angled steel. The shop you met me at, their 8ft tank is bigger than mine and they are using the same stand design as me. The base is the same as the top. It won't be undercoated or anything like that. I am going to put pine panelling over the whole thing to make it look like a dressed cabinet. This will also help with the strength. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 There is still a few things to add to the stand that will help its strength. The first is plywood sheeting on both ends, this will help a LOT to keep it rigid. I agree with ben....angle is much weaker than tube. And the ply wood is not going to do jack. If your stand is not rigid at the moment i would be vey nervous....very very nervous. Did you get any sort of guarentee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 It's very stable, built like a rock. The plywood is very helpful with the structure. It keeps it like a rectangle rather than a diamond Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 It's very stable, built like a rock. The plywood is very helpful with the structure. It keeps it like a rectangle rather than a diamond Bruce I'm confused.... Its built like a rock but the plywood will make it "a lot" more rigid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 It is, and I'm sure it'll be fine. Think of it as insurance. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndoboi Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Is it stainless steel, galvanised or mild steel (bit hard to tell from the pics, though it looks like mild)? If it's mild steel i'd be giving it a good coating of killrust paint before putting on the panels. You dont want it rusting away! Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Not sure what sort of metal it is. I'll speak to the company tomorrow and find out. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Hi BRuce, that stand looks way to light for your project. For starters rhs or even 5mm angle is a lot stonger than that 3mm mild steal you have and those welds ??? I would seriously consider diagonal cross braces each end and more uprights front and back. Killrust or simmilar is a must have or it could cost ya down the track. Maybe ask if the company will warranty the frame for weight intended with the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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