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Are NLS foods really that good?


JLL

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OK, so all of these people rave about how it is so much better than anything else on the market. A friend and myself are putting this to test and have gone halves in a 2.27kg bucket (3mm) which was promptly delivered from AOA last week.

I was feeding HBH pellets and some flake and my friend using a similar generic product. We are hoping to see some improvement in colour, growth, health or general vigour which will justify the much higher costs.

I have taken some pics (pre NLS) which I hope to post and we are going to try to track progress over the next few months to see if this product is all it is hyped up to be.

I would really like anyone else to offer feedback on NLS foods but more than just a generic 'it's really good' response. What actual improvements have you seen after making the change or is the hype just hype and how long did it take to see any improvement?

Between us we keep various africans and south americans.

Cheers

John

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Hi JLL -

A nice study is always good. BUT: are you feeding one group something else? HBH? Are the group kept side by side? (same water change/lighting/chemistry/food quantity(g / day), regime - at the same time etc). If no - then your ability to interpret any "result" you might observe (be it positive or negative) may be due to some other variable. Furthermore - how to plan to score "good"? Number of fry? Do you have enough fish to overcome intraspecific variation in your fish? Do you plan to measure growth? Weigh the fish?

If you are serious here's an idea of how I'd do it:

Have the two tanks side by side - I'd go substrate free (as differing amounts or types of substrate might alter the result). If you're using a buffer - dose both tanks at the same time, with the same amounts in the same way. Have the tanks under the same lighting, water change regime. Have the same number of fish (with the same gender ratio) in each tank. I'd recommend one species only.

Weigh the fish at the start (combine to get a mean +/- SE) - you need to have enough fish to avoid intraspecific differences. I'd suggest 10 individuals per tank is probably enough. Feed them for 8 weeks (with the same quantities ie: weigh the food) of the two different brands. Re-weigh. Compare. Do the stats. A simple t-test should tell you whether there is a difference between the two means.

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Ideally you'd independantly replicate this experiment ie: have 3-5x the two-tank setups I've described. As it currently stands in my example you dont have true replication... but it's probably near enough.

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Unfortunately I will not be able to carry out any study with quantifiable results or comparisons (read: other half would likely kill me if I started more tanks). I suppose I am really only looking to form some opinions from someone that does not run 100 tanks and is not a breeder (apart from unplanned pregnancies).

I know that this may not prove all that useful, perhaps i shouldn't bother, but a lot of people that just keep a couple of tanks get told that certain foods are far better than others and NLS seems to be the top of the tree.

Basically I just want to know if I will be able to see the difference in the same tank, same parameters, number of fish and filtration. I don't really want to (and can't) carry out any full on study. Will there be other factors that influence this? Sure there will, but I was just looking to see if I can justify the change as a simple couple of tanks man.

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I find NLS better than most other foods. My fish are growing faster, have better colours, breed more regularly and simply like the food better.

You also need to consider the effects that are not immediately visible. A healthier fish is more resistant to disease etc. I know of people who have had a noticebly reduced mortiality rate (recorded) since changing over to NLS, in particular, Thera A.

Michael

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Hi JLL -

I understand the intention - but I think you'll find it difficult to say much that's meaningful.... I guess from my perspective I'd not be bothering unless I did it correctly.

I should stress I've never purchased any NLS product - so have no opinions on this food.

My opinion on fish foods more broadly would be that while quality is important - it's more important for some fish than it is for others.

To give you an example - I breed my N. brichardi "Kiku" using Orca brand food as a staple. In saying that I sometimes feed Tetra (and Hikari, when I had some) and HBH. I've bred many hundreds of "Kiku" and I'm quite happy to keep doing this for this species. Would I get better rates of growth colours with a more premium food? I've got no idea - but the fish are healthy and breeding so to me that's a good indicator that I'm doing something right.

With specialist feeders - like Tropheus, for example, I'd say a similar practice would probably lead to bloat and disease. So perhaps "which food" is largely dependant on "which fish".

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Just out of curiosity Dave does the cost of fish food have any bearing on what brand you use.

I know with me it was both quality and price that dictated my choice but I guess that was a commercial decision.

I also agree it would be hard to do any sort of fair comparison with out a detailed experiment.

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Hi Nigel -

To be honest, not really. I guess I am satisfied with the quality I get for the price re: the NSWCS pelleted food. I supplement this with the odd raffle win (Tetra bits etc) from the club, mosquito larvae from the pond in my backyard and homemade foods.

I really think the "which fish" issue is a serious one. I think I can safely say, for example, that the type of food can have effects on the colouration of mbuna eg: black markings around the mouth in electric yellows and zebs can be determined by the food being fed (though it may have other causes also).

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My understanding is that NLS will not make your fish grow quicker, which is usualy achieved by an increased intake of protein.

NLS aims to mimick the diet and intake of minerals, vitamins and protein that a wild fish would have. I use NLS, and have noticed a general increase in colours, all of my Hap. Brownae lost the grey haze that dulled their colours and are now beautiful examples. On the other side, one of my Flavus has had a dramatic decrease in colour. I attribute both of these changes to behavior, and indirectly the food.

My reason, is NLS has improved the activness of the fish, the dominate males are mating more often, and generaly there are more power struggles between the males. My flavus has lost his colour due to harrasment from a overly dominant red empress, and now my red empress are some of the best examples i have seen (if i may say so myself :) ).

I also believe that all fishfood companies marketing products that offer "fast growth" products are only supplying my fish with an unnatural and unballanced diet. I dont mind paying the extra for NLS, i believe it is worth it.

P.S NLS is not paying me for my opinion, however wrong or correct it may be. ;)

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Hi JLL

i use a combination of flake (hbh growth and colour)and NLS the really fine grade and the next size up i prefer the NLS because even though its more expensive intially i think u use less to feed the same amount of fish as its easier to gauge when u have put enuff in so not much waste plus NLS doesnt cloud the water at all i find . I mainly use the flake when the fry are really small as i can grind it down to small bits for them

I think you will be surprised with how long it lasts let us know how u go

cheers Cal

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Thanks Cal, Andy and Huzzy, it is that sort of personal opinion I was after.

I suppose I should have stated that I was only after, and looking to form, informal opinions. An actual study would be great but I don't have that sort of time. I suppose these sort of unproven opinions don't help breeders.

I will try to keep track of any changes I can (or cant) see just for the sake of it for me if nobody else.

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I am also one that raves about this food. I feed Cichlid Formula to my Tropheus. Before, I used to feed OSI Spirulina Flake with good results. The results with NLS have been far better however. The fish have grown quicker, and are more active than before. It may be an age issue or water quality issue but the group spawns constantly. A little while ago I had 9 females holding, they all held to term. I also have noticed less droppings in the tank and the filters are cleaner than before. I was very impressed also with the way this food conditioned up some wild caughts that were on the skinny side.

Great stuff this NLS, it's all I feed :).

Jamie.

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I started to use it in the shop to use up "old stock". I used it on our aussie natives (mostly Rainbows) and the result spoke for itself. I am a convert, it really is good stuff.

Craig.

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i also am impressed with NLS and feed my tropheus adults -F1 and wildcaught and juveniles (even newly spit ones!) NLS exclusively now and i have noticed marked improvement in colour, vitality and breeding!!! As many have mentioned, they also take up the food ferociously so there is never any wastage or clouding of the water. What has really sold me is that i have had not one incidence of bloat since i have used this food. Now that it is much more affordable, i don't find any reason not to use the stuff.

Maybe Pablo himself can add some comments? ;)

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Hello RD,

I didn't mean anything bad by my comment...when i was writing my reply i saw Pablo on the forum and was hoping he would share with us his vast knowledge and experience with NLS!!!!!

We respect the fact that there may be controversy and we don't want another "witchhunt" as seen in another forum.

I think we all know how good this product is from personal experiences and the food sells itself :thumb !

Dave

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No worries Dave, I know that you had nothing but the best of intentions. :thumb

I wouldn't want to be accused of 'hijacking' anyone's thread, again, so that's why I posted the link to Pablo's Q&A forum.

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I thought linking to unauthorised web sites was not allowed. I cant see this particular website forum in the rules.

Linking Rules

We respect the fact that there may be controversy and we don't want another "witchhunt" as seen in another forum.

Dave I would not call asking questions of any particular product a "witch-hunt" :no:

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Before, I used to feed OSI Spirulina Flake with good results. The results with NLS have been far better however

When i started keeping cichlids, everyone used to feed OSI spirulina.

Now it seems like everyone is using NLS.

Are there any other members that are using both?

If so, can you tell me the difference?

Sorry to hijack the post, but there should be people out there thinking the same thing.

I've used NLS before and it was ok, but haven't tried OSI spirulina yet.

My next order will be either NLS or OSI...

Any inputs???

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OSI- good results, no disease, fish happy, clouds water a bit, more mess in canister.

NLS- great results, fish grow quicker, fish more active, more spawning, no clouding of water, less poo, less waste in filter, fish go nuts over it.

As for the colour thing, I haven't really noticed a colour difference between OSI and NLS. I used to think so but I think the colour diff was more related to age, ie fish getting older.

I think OSI and NLS are both top foods, I prefer NLS though for my colony.

Jamie.

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Thanks for the detailed answer...

I havent noticed the colour change as well with NLS, but definitely noticed that the mouthfuls have been smaller and less frequent now that i'm feeding them OSI growth and colour.....

Could be many factors involved, but i'll look into it again...

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Sometimes color changes in fish can be so subtle, that unless you observe your fish very, very closely, or better yet, haven't seen them in a few weeks, then sometimes these shifts in color can be easy to miss. The best way to compare color is to grow out some juvies from the same spawn in side by side tanks, and I can assure you that you will definitely see a difference in color, even very early on.

As an example, a friend of mine purchased an adult C. borleyi "Kadango" from a LFS that he felt was fairly impressive, I didn't say anything at the time but I personally felt that its color was not that great. He feeds NLS exclusively in all of his tanks, and when I returned approx 3 weeks later I couldn't believe how intense both the reds & blues had become in this borleyi. It looked like a different fish, yet he hadn't really noticed a huge change in the color, until I mentioned it to him. Of course he'd been looking at this fish on a daily basis, so the color change wasn't nearly as dramatic to him, as it was for someone like myself who hadn't seen it since a few days after it had settled into his tank. This fish was also sub dominant in this tank, and had no females, so the color change certainly couldn't be attributed to dominance, or breeding dress.

With some species a shift in color can also be difficult to attribute to any one thing as the fish are constantly turning it on, and turning it off, due to aggression, or sexual tension or excitement. Tropheus would be a good example of this type of behaviour that causes shifts in color, from one minute to the next. One also has to keep in mind that the lighting that you use, as well as the substrate & background colors can also have a major effect on the color of your fish.

Seeing as we can link to cichlid-forum without any issues, here's a link to some pics of my male

Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef) that has been raised on an exclusive diet of NLS since the day that he was spit. Photos are raw images taken last night with a Canon PowerShot A520, and the only change made to them was to resize them.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=118908

Natural sand substrate, black background, there are no female haps present in this tank, and he is no where near being the dominant fish in this tank. (125 gallon)

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To better facilitate discussions - ACE is happy to add the aforementioned NLS forum site to our list of allowable external links.

Feel free to link to discussions at that site in this thread.

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