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G'day all,

When submersing heaters how much of the top end can be out of the water without possible damage?

Does just the coil section need to be submerged or all the glass?

Also does anyone have their heaters laying on the glass directly or does everyone suspend them via their suction clips?

Thanks

Glenn

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It should say something along the lines of "Minimum water level" on the control part of the heater.

I have one on its side with no suction clips in a bare bottom tank, Well it does have suction caps but they keep slipping of the peices of crap.

HTH

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On the heaters I have, there is a line detailed inside the heater that says "minimal water level". I would check to see if your has something similar.

IMO you should not have the heater directly against the glass as the sudden change in temp if the heater moves or is bumped could cause the glass to crack

**beaten by teflon!! blush.gif **

Edited by roo

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Try and have the heater completely submerged if possible and also try not to install the heater vertically in the tank. Having the heater vertical can sometimes give a false reading as the heat rises into the thermostat and gives it the impression the tank is actually a lot warmer then it is. This of course could stop your heater coming on when it needs to (or perhaps more accurately, stop it from staying on as long as it needs to) and in the process not deliver your tank the heating it requires.

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My concern would be that having the heater touching the glass directly will set up a situation where there are temperature fluctuations. This may lead to the glass to crack as Roo has suggested. Earlier on in the year BlakeyBoyR asked a similar question regarding having the heater partially buried in substrate. A few of the comments made then are pertinent to this discussion.

http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=14811

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WOAH NELLY....

Try and have the heater completely submerged if possible

dntknw.gif

Careful what you are suggesting guys.

Glenn, the best answers to this question is the documentation that came with the heater.

First off, DO NOT fully submerse a heater unless the instructions clearly indicate the unit is fully submersible. And by this I do not mean the item being called "Submersible Aquarium Heater"... "What The?!" you all say, "All heaters are fully submersible these days", and to that I say, you would all be very surprised if you actually read the contents of the documentation provided with the new unit... rolleyes.gif AND FYI I am not only referring to cheap Asian made equipment shock.gif

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blake

I think you will find that it is safer to have the heater vertical and IMHO its safer not to fully submerge them. I have found that even the fully submersible heaters leak after time.

I usually try to keep the rubber end sticking out of the water, but some do have an inch of glass above the water

Josh

*EDIT* ducksta beat me

Edited by little swimmer

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Sure did, and forgot to mention, if the heater isn't vertical risk of leak increases IMO.

And if you have flow past the heater, the thermostat readings should be fine.

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Well I thought it would go without saying that one would READ THE INSTRUCTIONS of the heater before even plugging it in, that's why the instructions are there smile.gif If you're unsure, wouldnt the first port of call be the instructions anyway?

As for non-vertical placement of heaters leading to a higher prevalence of leakage I'd have to disagree with you on that one. I always (well ... nearly) place the heater at least on an angle and I've never had one leak. And if you're that concerned about quality, buy a jager or tronic for piece of mind.

If a heater is going to leak, it will leak, regardless of whether the very top is submerged or not. According to what you've said, even if a heater has been specifically designed to be submerged, you wouldnt completely submerge it.

I can see how having flow over the heater should stop heat from rising into the thermo, but we are talking direct flow from a filter outlet. If you place your heater right in front of a powerhead or something, then yes, it would probably eliminate the risk of rising heat giving a false reading, but I would still think placing the heater on a slight angle would have to help.

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If a heater is going to leak, it will leak, regardless of whether the very top is submerged or not

A heater cant leak if the top is out of the water unless the glass is cracked tongue.gif

Just the normal water circulation of the tank should be enough to stop the problems of heater rising from the element

Another problem with a heater lying flat is that fish can rest on them and if they are there when the heater is on they can get burnt.

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The entirity of the glass in my opinion should be submerged, regardless of whether there are heating elements directly behind it as it reduces the chance of glass cracking. Furthermore, if the entirity of the glass is submerged as I believe it should be, then at the very least, the bottom of the plastic/rubber top cap will also be submered. If you assert that water can leak into a heater through the very top of it, so too can water quite easily leak into the seal between where the glass meets the cap.

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Blake, if you don't understand the concept of heaters being more prone to leakage when not vertical, get a glass, put it open side down in the bath and push down. No water gets up into the glass.

Now push one in at 45.

I am happy to draw a diagram for you.

In fact, I am going to do it now...

And here it is.

user posted image

If you don't grasp the concepts of the water and the air and physical displacement you only have to ask.

Edited by Ducksta

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Glenn

What brand heater are you using? It then should be easier to determine if you should fully or partially submerse it.

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ps. Just consulted my instructions for my glass heaters which retail at $70+...

They are short and compact and can be installed vertically in nearly all common aquariums

**** are water-tight and are fitted with a glass tube 2mm thick

Submerge the heater vertically into the water at least up to the marking "minimum"

It should be attached in a location that a permanent and steady water flow is maintained

This heater is water tight and can be submersed up to the depth of 120cm (47.2 in.).

Just a few tasty tidbits tongue.gif

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Thanks for being condescending, nice work. And thankyou for the picture, clearly I am too inept to contribute to this thread without it.

Just as a side point, after working in LFS for a few years now, I've never once seen a heater returned after having water leaking into it, let alone from being installed on an angle. But hey, what would I know?

I'm not going to bother with this thread anymore.

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I put my heaters Horizontal right in the middle on the back glass always have and always will, Never had a problem.

I also understand that it should be placed there because it will disptribute heats evenly where as if you have it in one corner the temp will be different on the other side of the tank yes.gif makes sence to me.

I also submerge mine atleast 5-10cm down from the water level

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user posted image

I have also drawn a diagram to show how i place mine.

I think it is a matter of preference but before anyone gets scared because they have a bit of moisture in their heaters i would say its because of "condensation"

For example: Take a glass (much like the one ducksta used) and pour hot water in it, Leave it for a few minutes and come back and you will see that there is a "fog" if you will on the outside of the glass, This is also what happens with heaters but they are kept in water for months/years on end so to have a little condensation would be normal one would think.

JMO

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Teflon, condensation is caused by moisture - if the heater has condensation inside, there is moisture inside, there shouldn't be, EVER! It either leaked in there or was manufactured poorly.

Sorry for sounding condesending Blake wink.gif BUT, in my defence, when it comes to placing live electrical equipment in a tank full of water, you DO NOT take chances.

Since you have never seen heaters with condensation inside, I will bring half a dozen down to Auburn on the weekend. These are all heater's which retail for $50+ and are not Asian made but Italian (as I understand it, the best)

Why haven't I returned them or had them replaced? Because the seal lasted long enough to not develop the 'leak' inside the warranty period. Am I unhappy with the product - No, it did it's job for long enough, and seals will corrode over time when submersed, faster in certain conditions, so it is something you should be expecting to have to replace, not be 'shocked' when you have to smile.gif

I could probably go on using these heaters for years more without a problem, but why bother? To save money? Not my sole drive when it comes to being alive.

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Are all heaters made in a vaccuum? cause anywhere else there is humidity in the air that will be trapped in the unit when it is sealed and therefore can cause condensation on the inside of the glass. If they are built in a vaccuum then alrighty then. *

Ironically I've had two tronics get condensation yet none of the cheapies from AOA have, even fully submerged within a sump. #

Disclaimer:

the above comment marked with *: I am simply asking a question. I am not being a "smarty pants" and I am not imposing my views onto anyone else. I only seek more knowledge for the benefit of myself and others on this forum.

The second comment marked with #: I have stated my own personal experiences. To elaborate, one would think the $50+ heaters would not leak before the $13 ones do. This is not a slight against tronic or those who use tronic. I am also not affiliated with Ben or AOA at all nor am I affiliated with the manufacturer of the cheaper heaters. I do not receive a commision for my comments.

In General: The questions/opinions/experiences expressed within this post are my own and are not nessisarily the opinion of the ACE forum and/or it's owners & moderators in any way.

Edited by Ash

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ROTFLMAO @ Ash

Yes heaters should be manufactured in a controlled environment (vaccuum) from what I am led to believe.

Yes you would expect the more expensive heaters to last longer. Mine have all lasted longer, but all my heaters have lasted well beyond their warranty period before leaking, except 1, which was a cheap job from Ben and he replaced it as per warranty.

ps. Again, sorry Blake, I figured you could take it, from now on I will restrict myself to only taking the wee wEE out of frontosa keepers in your prescence rolleyes.gif

Edited by Ducksta

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There's a difference between playing around/taking the *iss, and being condescending. I have no problem with people poking fun and generally mucking around, but I think your post crossed that line.

No hard feelings, I'll live smile.gif

EDIT: When did I say I've never seen heaters with condensation inside? I said I've never seen a heater leak and have water in it. Yes before anyone points out the obvious, condensation is in a sense water, but not what I'd call a "leak". When I think leak I think tank water trickling into the glass tube.

Edited by BlakeyBoyR

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Ducksta condensation can get inside an air tight container so it CAN get inside a heater.

I have condensation in my heaters and they work 100% fine.

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in side some of my heaters there is like so green stuff around the coils

the guys down at my LFS said there is no trouble with it, it happens all the time does anyone no what it is inside the heater.

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in side some of my heaters there is like so green stuff around the coils

the guys down at my LFS said there is no trouble with it, it happens all the time does anyone no what it is inside the heater.

algae LOL.gif

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is it REALLY algae? cos if its algae, that means there MUST be some sort of condensation/moisture inside the heater for algae to exist.

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