Peacocks with concave belly

[panda87]

Hi, I am hoping someone can offer advice..

I noticed last night that 2 of my peacocks have quite obvious concave stomachs. One is a large tangerine male we have had for over a year. The other one is a small albino male that we have had for about 4-5 months. Looking at photos of the fish from last week, it doesn't look like it was that pronounced then. There have been no behaviour changes in the fish (big tangerine has always been a sook, still is.. albino is a runt and actually doesn't seem to have grown much if at all since getting him).

I am hoping it is just a case of them missing out on food. There ARE about 20 males in the tank, various sizes.

But Google has made me paranoid and I am stressing about bloat and or parasites so I would love to be able to rule this out.

I have gathered information, but maybe it would be easier for anyone to ask me what they need to know to help, rather than me writing a novel!! Thank you in advance!

[Buccal]

Hi there, sorry but I think it is a internal Protozoa problem.

It's not that you have done anything wrong if the rest of residents are happy and healthy, this just happens occasionally.

A lot of desease is always existent in tiny mass,,,, and will flourish when there is a problem or stress (and there's a truck of reasons).

Reasons from aggression to water quality.

I know people love their fish and have spent money to get their fish and hate seeing the waiste.

But if the rest of your tank looks healthy with no other issues, then remove these two fish and destroy them.

Place in plastic shopping bag and pelt hard at ground,,,,,, it fast, effective and doesn't get seen.

Just do some extra water changes than normal over next fortnight,,,,,, and remember on a standard basis a weekly water change and quality foods with no over feeding.

These designer peacocks are quite prone to these types problems also albinos amongst a non-albino environment.

[panda87]

I cant kill my fish when there could be other explainations ie missing out on food...

cant I treat this somehow?

[E4G13M4N]

If they are still eating you can separate the affected fish into a quarantine tank and try using foods mixed with Garlic and Epsom salts

Not always successful though.

[panda87]

sorry, phone didnt update so I posted twice.

[panda87]

they are separated and still eating. they are very keen for food.

I am more concerened because I am going away for 2 weeks on wednesday.. is there anything I can do in the main tank as a just in case?

Sorry to keep editing this.. I keep thinking of more things. I am pretty worried.

This is another fish in the main tank.. I think his stomach looks flat but perhaps I am just being paranoid now since I am actively looking for something wrong.

Not the greatest quality, but it shows his shape. He also has a tiny white protrusion at his vent - you can see in on the pic, a few mm from his anal fin.

And here is a goole image which is pretty similar to how a few of the fish are shaped - so, is this just normal?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWC093alID2tCjeK6DsAfTAUhlGaNbw-zppNEI-oFRf6beIvfo

[panda87]

Hopefully someone reads this..

I have returned from the 2 weeks away.. My 2 concave fish are still eating, still have skinny bellies but happy and behaving normally. My friends fed them epsom salts soaked food for 5 days then frozen garlic/pea/multi v mix for the rest of the time.

On return home I have done a full treatment with API general cure - its making them poo a lot - the last poo I saw was well formed but very pale.

Problem is, I am pretty sure its in the main tank too. Some of the bigger fish look pretty skinny now, and the biggest is a bit pale in colour. He's the one with the slight protrusion. I have more API gen cure, but my partner doesnt want to treat the whole tank (its 6x2x2 so we'd need heaps).

I've read about Met soaked food - can anyone offer any advice on this? I cant put the main tank fish in the qt, one there are too many, also if the 2 fish are healthy again i dont want to re-expose them by introducing them back in.

Advice appreciated.. Thanks

[Noddy65]

Hi Panda

Sunken bellies is a symptom not a disease and the possible reasons are many and varied.

API general cure is a fine product BUT it has its limitations...it will treat some (not all) EXTERNAL parasites...and while parasites should be on your differential list, Im not convinced you have an external parasite issue.

The next logical step to me is to treat for internal parasites...again there are some fine products (your local LFS or our sponsors should be able to help out here)...honestly the pea/garlic combo is almost next to useless for real internal parasites.

Depending on your setup isolating the affected fish would also be a good idea...this allows you to monitor them closely, treat individuals and also helps prevent the spread of any disease (although in a mixed tank this has probably already happened by the time you see effected fish)

Ideally some diagnostics would be best (I see your in the NT so local vets may have limited experience with pet fish).

Metronidazole MAY (or may not) help but it depends on the issue...the usual dose for in feed dosing is 1 gm /100 gms of food.

There are some common diseases of aquarium fish (TB) that are not treatable.

Mike

[panda87]

Thanks for your reply

I am just going off the response here and on another forum that its probably an internal parasite.

I have observed the stringy poo in one fish that I have isolated already, and one fish in the main tank.

I got the API after recommendation from someone on cichlid-forum.com as a tx for internal parasite.

I have seen the change in their poo since first dose (Sunday) and second dose (yesterday). They actually seem to be less skinny but maybe I'm just not as shocked by it anymore.

There is no LFS in my town. The closest is 3+ hours away, but I will be there on the weekend.

I did enquire with our local vet and they wanted to charge me $70 to bring the fish in not including anything they prescribed (I was told later they would have wanted to cut it open anyway).

Set up is one 6x2x2 (680L) display tank with about 20 male peacocks mixed sizes. QT is 2x1x1 and has the 2 treated peacocks in there.

I believe it has already spread. There are at least 4 fish in the main tank that look to have sunken bellies, not as obvious but it's definitely there.

I spoke to my partner and he said I could go ahead and treat the main tank (not just soak the food). Is this advisable? I have read that its difficult to overdose with Met.

Thanks again

[rosco]

Metro is pretty safe but I believe that it doesn't stay in the water column long before it breaks down so it simply isn't as effective. As Mike, the vet, mentioned if your fish are eating then treat the food if they are not then isolate them and go from there. Over the years I have treated heaps of fish this way and some recover and some simply don't. In fact I am testing a fish the same way atm I didn't notice until late night night when I moved the fish out of one tank into another to shut down a bigger tank looking at the fish i suspect it won't survive but we can only try.

[panda87]

Thanks rosco for clarifying.

If I may ask another couple of questions.

- I have the Met/Prazi in powder form, so how much water should I be dissolving it in? Just enough to soak the food?

- Given I think a few of the main tank fish have it, is in not likely to be in the water? So if I feed them the met-soaked food, it should kill the bug in them but what about the bug present in the water? Won't they just get re-infected?

- Can I do both, i.e. soak the food AND dose the tank (with a lower dose?)

- Is there any product you would recommend over API Gen Cure? There are only 3 stores where I am going, one is Petbarn, the other two are small independant pet stores which don't have a huge range and only one I actually trust to some point.

I genuinely think the 2 QT fish are doing better. Their poo this morning was normal and I do think less skinny. Should it be fine then to go back to normal feed?

Thanks again

[Link2Hell]

Hi Panda

you find that most pathagens are always present I the water and it only takes a trigger

through stress or new to the tank to set things in motion

good to hear the poo is normal this means the treatment has worked once they white

stringy stuff stops

I don't feel it is a problem to treat the tank as well as feeding soaked food but soaked food

is the most direct way and yes minimal water so it all soaks into the pellet or flake and then

feed in small amounts until they stop or you feel they have had enough so they don't miss

any food and it doesn't leach the meds before they eat it

I like to use live black worms on non vegetarian species and just have them soak in it for

10-15 minutes after sprinkling the powder over them but once again only small amounts

at a time till it was gone

syringing it into prawn meat or small shrimps to feed works also

have a look at the sponsors banner top of the page Age of Aquarium can supply most things

but remember that Metro (Flagyl) and Dimetro are prescription drugs so a GP or Vet will need

to supply a script unless you already have a source

[panda87]

Thanks for the advice..

Do you know if it is safe for pictus? I have 6 in my tank.

I have only fed the food 2 days and today noticed one of the pictus hiding in a spot he's never gone before so I am hoping they are ok..

[Link2Hell]

I have used it with catfish in the tank and there wasn't a problem

just don't use liquid form it has additives - only tablet form

[panda87]

Thanks Chris.. Im using API general cure powder, which has 250mg met and 75mg prazi per sachet... still should be ok?

[panda87]

ok, ive just completed their api gen cure (water change tomorrow). im also feeding the treated food still.

tonight I noticed stringy poos in one fish. havent observed poo at all in others.

suggestions as to what next?

[Link2Hell]

so long as you follow manufacturers directions

on dosage it should be fine

Prazi is good for flat worms

keep an eye on the fish and note any changes

this will give you an idea if you need to repeat

the treatment

[panda87]

thanks and sorry for being vague. it doesnt say how long to wait to see reaults.. in the qt I noticed good poos within a day but its harder with the bigger tank.

does anyone know, do they ever quite fatten up again or if I need to do anything above regular feed? they get a range from pellets, bloodworm, discus dinner, feed 1x per day.

[Link2Hell]

Hi Panda

I reread the thread and it looks like you only have the Peacocks from your pics

also nice pond and very useable in NT

maybe add shrimp to the feeding either brine shrimp or local small freshwater shrimp

that you could breed yourself in a pond and suited to local climate

have a look here http://www.aquagreen.com.au/files/Freshwater_Shrimps_of_NT.pdf

what are you feeding now ?

Aulonacara usually only have a flat belly unless they have just been feed

it normally takes longer to get condition on than for them to loose it but good

food and extra water changes will help

[Link2Hell]

my Chitande type north

[aussiem]

Nice looking fish Chris

[Link2Hell]

always nice quality from Mr Peacock

the males look awesome when the go dark and spawn

should have got the Mamelela off you too hindsight

[intangcity]

i have read all posts but may i question what food are you feeding them and have you changed food at all being not long before this happened

[panda87]

Hi Panda

I reread the thread and it looks like you only have the Peacocks from your pics

also nice pond and very useable in NT

maybe add shrimp to the feeding either brine shrimp or local small freshwater shrimp

that you could breed yourself in a pond and suited to local climate

have a look here http://www.aquagreen.com.au/files/Freshwater_Shrimps_of_NT.pdf

what are you feeding now ?

Aulonacara usually only have a flat belly unless they have just been feed

it normally takes longer to get condition on than for them to loose it but good

food and extra water changes will help

Thanks again yep only Aulonocara. Too many considering we are moving soon but thats another story!

Their usual daily food is NLS Thera A. They get bloodworm or discus dinner 1-2 times a week.

This has been their diet all along. The only 'disruption' was over Xmas where I had friends looking after for 2 weeks. For the 2nd week it was a different person and I suspect they overfed (even though they keep the same fish). Not long after I got home I noticed the hollow bellies.

Theres a definite hollow on at least half the main tank fish. Ill upload a vid.

[panda87]

And, hes a very nice fish!

Edit: Here is the video.. It's hard to pick the hollow while they are swimming. It's most obvious on the orange/blue fish and toward the end. Apologies for poor quality!