Sump on freshwater display tank

[luis]

I hear a lot of talk about sumps but it's usually in the context of fish rooms. I've always like the idea of a sump but it seems pretty rare in the freshwater world. Does anyone here run a sump on a freshwater display tank?

If so, what made you choose a sump over a canister/other? And when would you choose a canister, if ever?

[Chuckmeister]

I run a 6x2x2 on my 8 footer in my lounge.

i chose it for added water volume and increased media. Its an awesome setup though in hindsight I'd have put on 2 2260's and had the piece and quiet that a decent canister provides.

[luis]

Chuck, is noise the main reason why you would go with the Eheims or also ease of maintenance? I've heard it both ways (canister is easier to maintain and sump is easier).

[Buccal]

Nothing beats a correctly configured sump,,, both ease of maintenance and bio/mech efficiency.

As cannisters begin to near cleaning stages, a great percentage of efficiency is reduced.

Only cons to cannisters is compactness with less instrumentation in tank and silence.

Difference in cannisters and sumps is very apparent in the world of stingray keeping.

Just about all long term cases of cannisters used on rays wind up with dead mature rays (ammo spikes and built up nitrates).

Sumps are a must for long term ray keeping.

Even my big Malawi display, has two big fx cannisters,,, I added a large over head sump with k media and what a difference,, much higher stock levels and definetlely larger healthier fish.

Sumps allow more oxygenation for beneficial bacteria to,,, where cannisters are completely closed out.

[luis]

Buccal would you run a sump only on this tank? Or do you feel the need for canisters as well?

Had no idea about stingrays, do they poo a lot or just very sensitive?

[Buccal]

Well luis it depends on the size of your tank which you haven't indicated yet.

Nearly all fish trickle excrete, they poo a little then your filter converts, fish poo a little again and filter converts, and keeps going like that.

But, stingrays on the other hand are very ancient and have very primitive body functions, as quick as food goes in (which is a lot), is as quick as it comes out as waiste, and this really puts significant load on the biological parts of filters,,, not to mention embryonic fluid (afterbirth) after giving birth to live pups.

Keeping normal fish and having optimum filtration I believe is having a good size cannister suited to aquarium size used as the mechanical water buffer,,, and a compact sump holding K1 media working as purely biological which remains purely 100% actively biological 100% of the time because it never blocks.

In my Malawi display, because is a meter deep and lots of rock work, if a big fish dies and disappears into rocks I don't worry at all, water gets a little dirty from the catfish ripping up the rotting flesh and stirring up particles.

But I'm safe guarded against any bad levels of ammonia because K media past 10 months maturation is a beast of a biological media and that's all there is to K media.

I find the elongated box planting pots from bunnings are rigid and hold water well,,, but the drainage holes on bottom need to be blocked,,, these make great K media sumps for overhead or traditional below tank.

[luis]

I really like the look of a rimless tank with little or no gear inside the tank (maybe just a wave maker). This is what got me looking into reef ready tanks, they usually come with a sump plumbed in and no room for a canister in the cabinet. Also a canister would negate the whole "no gear in tank" thing.

In terms of size I'm thinking a 3x2 or 4ft max, that's all I have room for. How does the tank size influence the sump decision?

[jcsongei]

I'm in the process of setting up a sump for a display tank, so am working through this too.

Pros of a sump: you get more filter volume (more water volume in general gives more stable conditions) and more water flow for less money spent. Can keep the heater(s) hidden. Less maintenance because it won't get clogged as quick as a canister.

Cons: difficult to get the noise level down, issues with the plumbing.

If you buy a ready made tank with sump setup then you probably avoid the cons, but might cost as much as a canister or two.

Larger tank provides larger area underneath to fit a sump. It's up to you how much of it you use for a sump vs other storage. Keep in mind an external canister filter is just version of a ready made sump, so large tanks can run on a small sump if that's all you want to use.

[Buccal]

I really like the look of a rimless tank with little or no gear inside the tank (maybe just a wave maker). This is what got me looking into reef ready tanks, they usually come with a sump plumbed in and no room for a canister in the cabinet. Also a canister would negate the whole "no gear in tank" thing.

In terms of size I'm thinking a 3x2 or 4ft max, that's all I have room for. How does the tank size influence the sump decision?

A smalller tank size less than 4x2x2 means your limited to stock higher limits, which doesn't really call for optimum filtration.

[LEG-IT]

In terms of audible noise emitted whilst in operation, i dare say sump setups can be the same, if not quieter then typical canister filters if set-up correctly.

The type of overflow setup and type of pump you elect to run will ultimately determine the total noise level produced , typically people opting for a basic sump setup with just two holes drilled on the back wall for return and overflow will experience an annoying gurgling sound (assuming a 90* closed elbow). A properly setup beananimal, herbie or even a durso setup with a silencing chamber will eliminate such noise as it provides a point of relief and egress for trapped air. Pump noise is often a result from the pump housing/casing vibrating against the glass, a silicon matt or rubber feet will dampen and attenuate majority of the noise produced.

In regards to plumbing, all you really require is teflon tape, stainless steel clamps (if connecting a hose to a tail fitting), orings (for union valves) or maybe plumbers glue if you plan on hard plumbing it with PVC pipes

Sump decision should ultimately be based on how heavy your bioload or stocking will be, no point having a 200l sump on a 4x2x2 if you plan on only keeping 2 small tetras

[mjoconr]

I build a 500L display tank with a 160L sump, the day I started it up I was very upset about the noise level, its came down to two issues.

1. The Ehim 5000L/hour pump was just over the top noisy replaced it with a DC pump so much quieter.

2. Installed two 'Durso' units on the down pipes to the sump this reduced the noise dramatically. Some month later I adjusted the primary down pipe to be a syphon and added a valve near the water line of the sump. The tank is now so quite that I can hear the fridge more than it.

So for a traditional filtration system the sump can not be beaten:

1. It increase the overall volume of water which will always increase water parameter stability.

2. You can see what is going on and fix issue which you can not with canister

3. Adding temporary equipment is easy

4. Water heats able to be placed in the sump removing unsightly equipment from the tank.

5. Any fry in your tank will most likely end up in the first partition of the sump meaning you will not loose any many to predation. (I currently have about 30 Cichlid fry and 60 or so bristle-nose fry waiting for me to get home and move them.)

6. I'm sure there are other good reasons.

Cons:

1. The thing I can think of its the space they use.