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Euthanasia 2


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<H1>Please help</H1><DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>My Aequidens rivulatus had what I thought was pop eye some weeks ago and I treated it with melafix, salt and lots of water changes.

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It appeared to be getting better, BUT....

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When I turned his lights on this morning its like his whole head has exploded, there is a whole about the size of a 10 cent piece in his head and white stringy stuff is rapidly coming out.

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I dont know what to do with him, but I can't bare to see him like this.

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Can anyone tell me what is wrong and whether his number is up????

</DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>he's getting bad, no suggestions from anyone???

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I can't bear to watch him like this, but he's a decent sized fish I don't know what to do with him???

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Please?

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: colfish</STRONG><BR><BR>you do really know what needs to be done

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>yeh pretty much, i've never had to do anything to any of my fish before, I can't just whack him on the head!!!

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A friend suggested freezing him, but that sounds a bit cruel

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>keep on treating him he should get better my cuzns jack dempsey had a big cut and you could see the bone and it got better like nathing happand

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and he had a hole in the head in his green severum it got fixed after a while,, what tank i she in and how big is he

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hope he gets better

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cya

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>thanks!!! I will hope for the best, she's in a 3 ft tank with a festivum, firemouth and common plecco. She's about 20 cms.

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I can isolate her in a smaller tank if necessary???

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>you should do it asap so the other fish don't catch any bad diseases

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cya

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>She's all moved, and well dosed up on medication!!!

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Hope for the best!!!

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Thanks

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Beagly</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day

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If you need to kill her what I would do is put her into a plastic bag, then into another.

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Then I drop a brick onto the fishes head.

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At least this way it is a quick for the fish as opposed to dying of suffocation in the cold of a freezer.

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PS. I agree with trying to save her, especially since you were able to seperate her.

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Goodluck

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>What was/is in the tank with her ? What filter, carbon etc are you using ?

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I'm no expert or anything but i believe hole in the head disease can be brought on by stress/bad water conditions/over crowding, i would think a 20cm fish in a 3ft tank could be stressful on the fish. And now you've moved it to a smaller tank ?!

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Just a thought.............well a guess really

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Maybe do a google search for "hole in the head disease"..........lots of info out there.

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Lata

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Matt

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>Sounds like your GT has hole in the head rather than pop eye.Hole in the Head is not necessarily fatal although the scars never go away but your fish sounds pretty advanced.

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If youre a real 'softie' (like me) and hate euthanising fish the more direct way - put it into a shallow container,(Ice cream container etc), drop about 4-5 panadiene into the water and put the container into the freezer for an hour or so. The fish will absorb the pain killer thru its gills and go into a 'coma' then die without any pain or stress. White alcohol ( vodka, white rum etc) in the water works even quicker but is obviously more expensive.

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Nick

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: phatoscarlover</STRONG><BR><BR>Beagly thats the most unhumane thing ive heard in a long time! dropping a brick on the fish? Just freeze it in a freezer with water plain and simple.....The temp reduces the fish`s capacity to carry oxygen in the blood to the brain and as such cause the fish to go into a "coma" so they cant feel anything within a few mins of being in the freezer there dead. May not be as qucik as choopin its head off or whateva but is alot more humane in my opinion. Never heard the panadine thing but when you can use only water why bother. HTH Cheers andy

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: GoFast01</STRONG><BR><BR>I put fish in icy water with ice cubes floating around.... they die in about 5 seconds...... i don't know about 1 hour in the freezer.....

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>Well fortunately she's still swimming around, a friend who has an empty 3 ft tank has taken her and she's living there temporarily!!!

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Hopefully she will be back home soon.

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Thanx for all the help!!! I could never bring myself to drop a head on any of my fish

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>HITHD has been linked to prolonged exposure to hard water as well as water quality, you may wish to address these before returning the fish to the tank.

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>GoFast01

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I guess I'm talking about big fish. I've had to euthanise a few big oscars,severums etc over the years and trust me, 5 minutes in a freezer doesnt cut it with a 30cm fish unless theyre real weak to start with !

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Whatever - plain water,putting painkillers in the water etc, putting in the freezer for 5 minutes or an hour - got to be a lot better than dropping a brick on it!

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Nick

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>like i said put it in a tank by it self and see how you go and keep us informed about its health

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the HIH disease will get better if you treat it properly

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don't freez it or drop a brick on its head

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test your water for (PH amonia and nitrate)

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do you do regular water change and what do you feed it

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HTH

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omar

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</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>I do weekly 1/6 water changes (approx)

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I feed mainly on cichlid pellets, but i do try to give a few meals of frozen cichlid dinner per week.

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I took a sample of my water down to hi tek aquariums soon after I removed the fish and they tested it and the results came back all with in the normal range except for Ph it was slightly low.

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She is still alive and kicking (well sort of), tho not eating at all. She sits close to the bottom of the tank all day, for once she is not ripping all the greenery out (she must be ill).

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I've been doing daily water changes now (on the advice of lfs) and redoing her medication daily.

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She looks better today than she did before so I'm hoping that she will recover.

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Thanks for all your help, hopefully i wont be needing brick, freezers or pandedine.

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Cheers

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Chipimbi</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day all,

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Totally amazed at the definition of 'humane' posted by a number of members in this post.

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A large part of keeping livestock is being accountable for their well being and also a responsibility to end their suffering if needed.

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Any hit to the head, whether by a brick or other object, is DEFINITELY more humane - where death occurs instantly- than 5 seconds to over an hour in cold conditions whether drugged to the gills on codeine or not. Individuals are trying to rationalise euthanasia to make it more palatable to their senses and are thinking of themselves as opposed to the recipient of their act.

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I do agree on the reasons posted for HITH - keeping rivulatus in hard water for prolonged periods - water quality itself etc. This is an internal gut parasite that causes the disease and needs to be treated with appropriate prescription medication. Believe me I know what you are experiencing having put down a beautiful 30cm rivulatus male who finally succumbed to HITH.

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While you may save the fish, the scarring will not heal completely, if at all, and if the hole is as severe as you mention it may be a better option to bite the bullet and destroy the fish.

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Cheers

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Aline

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Katoomba, NSW

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</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>That's not really something I wanted to hear, she was a beautiful species and I was hoping to find a mate for her in the near future.

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Although the water quality was almost perfect at the time of testing she had spent some time in a mates tank seeing if she would pair with his male, I'm wondering if this impacted on her health

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This morning I went to visit and she is still not eating, she still has stuff coming out of the hole and she;s still just sitting on the bottom looking sad.

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I dont think i could ever whack her over the head, but I'll get a good friend of mine whos knowledge of fish is amazing to come and take a peek and see what he has to say on the matter.

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He has euthanased many fish in his time (he's a trained vet) and has the equipment to neither freeze or bash them, he just puts them to sleep.

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Anyways I'll let you all know what happens later on today

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Chipimbi</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day Hoges,

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If worst comes to worst I think you have a very peaceful solution for your rivulatus - you never know, your vet friend may come up with something yet

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If things don't go as planned persevere - both gold saum and white saum rivulatus make wonderful display fish, breeders and pets. Like the majority of American cichlids they are full of personality.

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Good luck.

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Aline

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Katoomba, NSW

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<DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: 23Skidoo</STRONG><BR><BR>My condolences hoges, hopefully she'll be alright.

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The rest of you i'm really disappointed in, a big bunch of tree huggers, too wrapped up in being nice to just kill a fish. C'mon people! If it's sick there is no horror in killing a fish.

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I think the brick method is definately the most humane talked about. It's quick and brutally effective. If you shed a tear at the loss of a fish, fine. But it's your fish, your responsibility.

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Personally i use my fishing knife, behind the head first or second vertebra, no wuckers!

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Sorry for ranting again, but i think we are all getting a bit soft these days

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</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: phatoscarlover</STRONG><BR><BR>i Hope the fish recovers to full health. If you guys think its humane to drug your fish or hit it on the head then go for it but personally id rather the freezer.

BTW if it does come good and you want to bread it, the scars and the disease are not genetical so there will be no ill health from it for there offspiring. HTH Cheers andy

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