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bio balls/matrix


tykita

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gday

i know this has been done before but could i get some feedback on the amount of bio balls needed per litre of water. and/or the amount of matrix per litre. and if you have time the pro's and con's of bio balls to matrix.thanks in advance for your time and replies

regards

chris

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The best amount of bioballs IMHO is none.

Get some plastic scourers, coarse sponge, gutter guard or biomat instead. It's considerably cheaper and does the same job. Of those my preference is for coarse sponge. Several aquariums sell it and will cut it to size.

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The best amount of bioballs IMHO is none.

Get some plastic scourers, coarse sponge, gutter guard or biomat instead. It's considerably cheaper and does the same job. Of those my preference is for coarse sponge. Several aquariums sell it and will cut it to size.

At the end of the day wether you use bio balls or a cheaper media as Yew suggests (hey I thought biomat is expensive?), nether will have an negative impact on your fish. I would suspect that the bio balls are better at what they do simply because the have been purpose built, where as the media Yew suggests has not been built for biological habitation (except for the kamaharda biomat). But like I said, at the end of the day both will keep your fish alive, and one will be a lot cheaper.

What is more important is that you use the bio balls or cheaper media in an emersed (out of water) situation. That is you want the water to flow through the media and not be under water. Bio balls have the capacity to increase the water’s oxygen level (as would cheaper media), but ONLY if used with the water trickling through it.

If you want to immerse the media, then use Matrix.

How many bio balls do you need? The often touted amount, as mentioned above is one ball per litre. But in truth the amount you will need will be dictated by the amount of fish you have, and but wether or not you use more than one type of bio media.

For example, if you have a 4’ tank, and one small fish in it, clearly the waste produced by one fish will not feed enough bacteria to supply food for numbers to populate every ball at one bio ball per litre of water. If you have the fish stacked in there like sardines, then one per litre will not be enough.

One bio ball per litre is a starting point, but it would be even better if you used say bio balls (or cheaper alternative provided they are set up emersed), and matrix. They both have pros and cons and will complement each other nicely.

Craig

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What about ceramic noodles - how do they rate against the bio balls?

I know the balls would probably be better but I have the course-type ceramic noodles which seem to do a great job.

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What about ceramic noodles - how do they rate against the bio balls?

I know the balls would probably be better but I have the course-type ceramic noodles which seem to do a great job.

The only thing I could understand from “ceramic noodles” would be what Ehime produce called effisubstrate. Effisubstate is a very course mechanical media, and has little in the way of surface area which is what you need for a good biological media.

So if these ceramic noodles/pipes are about 12mm long, and approximately 10mm across, white in colour and a wall thickness of about 2-3mm, what you have I wouldn’t recommend as a biological media as the difference in available surface area is extream.

Edit - don't you love these German names - stike out Effisubstate, and put in Effimech

Craig

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Hi All -

Effisubstrate is a sintered glass media with very large surface areas. Effimech is the ceramic pipes.

I think there's a culture of "more surface area is better" in the aquarium hobby - in my opinion much of this is unnecessary.

Consider these factoids:

1. I run all my 2' tanks off a single corner filter with 1" layers of gravel and some filter wool. The turn over is quite slow given the filters are driven by an air pump. There is no detectable nitrite or ammonia in these tanks and the fish breed fine.

2. I've run a 6x2x2 off an above tank "trickle" style filter where the only biological substrate was a kilo or so of pea sized gravel and a 2-3" layer of filter wool. Again, no detectable ammonia or nitrite (and this tank had BIG (12+ inch) fish).

Biballs have a large surface area, but I think the same volume of pegs, ceramic noodles, filter wool or just plain gravel will give you an identical result. Coarse sponge is much cheaper and IMHO will do exactly the same job - emersed or wet/dry.

Baffle filters are often setup with 3 sizes of gravel - again - these work very nicely wink.gif.

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I think there's a culture of "more surface area is better" in the aquarium hobby - in my opinion much of this is unnecessary.

I think that the more surface area the better, simply because it can’t hurt. What happens if you don’t quite have enough? Are we gong to get down with a microscope and count the amount of bacteria, and make sure we have enough surface for them to colonise, and then no more. It is much simpler and safer, to have as much as you need, and then some.

So how much do you need?

There lies the grey area.

So you have a choice of using a media wether it be bio balls or kama harda biomat, or pegs or scourers or what ever, or use something with even less surface area.

What happens if you choose a product with JUST enough to support the tank, and something goes wrong, say a fish dies and you don’t know, but if there was a bit more surface area that new bacteria could colonise to take up this extra ammonia - just enough to stop the dead fish decaying from killing other fish in the tank – but alas the bio media had no more room (bearing in mind all surface areas in the tank can house bacteria)?

What happens if as the fish grow, produces more waste, but your tank runs out of “buffer” surface area to take up this extra waste?

What happens if you go on holiday and a friend looks after the feeding...just a little too well?

Or what happens as I just read if you have mouse piddling in your tank? woot.gif

Wouldn’t it be better to have too much than just enough?

I think you’ve also got to take into account the differing abilities of hobbyists and their knowledge and experience at keeping fish alive, and there ability at trouble shooting and so on. For this reason alone it is better to have more than needed than just what the tank can get by on.

Now if you're doing it this way Yew, no problem, you know what you are doing.

.....

Coarse sponge is much cheaper and IMHO will do exactly the same job - emersed or wet/dry.

Sorry Yew, but I completely disagree with this raisehand.gif . Any media in an emersed (underwater) situation will not have access to the same amount of oxygen as it would if water was running through it. This lack of oxygen will be a limiting factor if there is enough food, and surface are for the bacteria to colonise. In addition, being in a situation where water is running through it actually increases the amount of surface area for oxygen exchange, and will in fact increase the amount of oxygen in the water. This is a good thing, and not only for the fish. It is greatly underestimated how much oxygen bacteria can strip out of the water, and the impact on the pH the CO2 they produce can have.

Craig

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Do most tanks need extra oxygen to be added via the filter?

I would have thought that with adequate circulation and some breaking of the surface, most tanks would have plenty of oxygen.

I have a baffle filter on my most heavily stocked tank. All the media is under water, and I have never seen fish gasping for air.

My tank may not be the norm of course, which is why I am asking smile.gif

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Hi Craig/Others -

The point I make above is simple - you get MORE than enough (not just enough) using any of the substrates I suggest.

Craig - I agree with you in that bacteria out of the water have access to more oxygen than those in. BUT here's some pondering:

1. How much oxygen do the bacteria in question require? (not the same amount that's in the air, judging from all the people running emersed filters - and also from the fact that they are aquatic organisms [or at least require close proximity to water]).

2. We have no evidence (that I'm aware of) that wet & dry filters work any better at all than one's running emersed in freshwater aquariums. I'd be curious as to how we'd measure this anyway? If a tank with all emersed filters has no ammonia or nitrite - and one with wet and dry filters has no ammonia or nitrite that we can detect - then how are they different.

3. An aside from 1., the species on emersed filters may differ from those in a wet and dry system.

Bioballs remain, in my opinion, a marketting tool.

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Just a quick point about why I raised the question about ceramic noodles - the stuff I have appears to be poreous, as best I can tell. Therefore I'd assume the bacteria can in effect habitate the entire noodle, inside and out.

Maybe speaking out my behind, but as nitrifying bacteria are photosensitive to blue & UV light, would this not be an advantage if the noodles are exposed to light at any point?

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Maybe speaking out my behind, but as nitrifying bacteria are photosensitive to blue & UV light, would this not be an advantage if the noodles are exposed to light at any point?

What does he mean by photosensitive to blue & UV light? This is the first time I've ever heard of this. I've heard the other argument, i.e., submersed vs trickle, countless times but not the light one. So do these bacteria grow better when exposed to this light?

Best regards,

Troy.

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Photosensitive means sensitive or responsive to light or other radiant energy. In this case it is a negative response . My understanding is that they only photosensitive, especially to blue and ultraviolet light for a short period of time. It is when the cells are suspended in water for the first 3-4 days that UV or near UV pose a problem. After they have colonized a surface this light poses no problem. Regular aquarium lighting has little negative effect. There is plenty of research on the matter.

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the stuff I have appears to be poreous, as best I can tell. Therefore I'd assume the bacteria can in effect habitate the entire noodle, inside and out.

Has to be open cell type construction, otherwise how can bacteria get in if there is a solid wall?

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the stuff I have appears to be poreous, as best I can tell. Therefore I'd assume the bacteria can in effect habitate the entire noodle, inside and out.

Has to be open cell type construction, otherwise how can bacteria get in if there is a solid wall?

The definition of porous: Admitting the passage of gas or liquid through pores.

I'd say for it to allow the passage of gas or liquid it would have to be open cell.

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considering the amount of waste that would be produced by fish, the flow thorugh rate of most filter systems, and the amount of media present. I dont think the in or out of water thing really matters.

unless: you have alot of media with dirty fish and a very slow turn over rate. This would mean that the biolayer on the filter media would have a much larger contact time with the wastes, and therefore be able to assimilate more O2, by the time it gets through the larger amount of media it may have depleted the water of avaliable O2.

another draw back of heaps of dense media (gravel etc) or ill maintained and dirty filters, if the power stops = no flow rate + lots of bioload = this could result in your filters dying due to the creation of a anaerobic condition, Open type media out of the water, in an enclosed, and humid environmment will last active until the media drys out, and so will survive a power outage.

yes bubbler corner filters have have a very slow turn over , but the amount of media is considerably less and the contact time with the media is also reduced. so the biolayer does not strip the water of O2

This is why you need a higher turn over rate for bigger tanks, or tanks with a larger bio load, BUT if the amount of water flowing through a filter is too fast and the mount oif media is insufficient than the biological filtering capacity of the filter will be inadequate. Or worse the faster flow rate through the filter will be too fast for the filter to actually filter, and it will actually strip the biomedia of of its biofilm.

So it is a proportional type of thing. figure out you load potential ie more fish mass = more waste = more filtration needed = higher turn over rate.

if you want to use lots of media, and a slower turn over rate, than a trickle type set up with the media in the air will allow this to function more effectively, alternatively you could bubble air up through your biomedia.

But in reality most people (including myself) over filter their tanks, but this is better than underfiltering.

porus ceramic noodles will work and will be colonised both in and out. Inside however will be colonised potentially by anaerobic bactera, this will help to reduce nitrates!

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