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joey13 - 5ft In-Wall Setup


joey13

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G'day guys and girls,

Well my obsession has evolved and grown into the next level as I'm sure many of you have experienced before. I have recently shut down my previous 140gal pride and joy. I felt that I could not go any further with it but was also extremely happy with how it turned out.

For those interested, tank is here. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/index.php?mode=tank&tank=24069

I am now in the planning stages of setting up my new in wall setup and so I thought I would start this build log. As always, I am also seeking some advice and opinions from my fellow enthusiasts.

THE PLAN...so far

Planning on keeping either a Frontosa / Altolamprologus tank or all male Hap and Peacock Tank.

I originally wanted to go with an 8ft setup but after consultation with several carpenters, I sadly had to come to terms with being restricted to a smaller tank. I did not want to put the tank in any other location and so the wall to be used wouldn't accommodate it.

Tank

So far I am set on the length and width of the tank but undecided about the height.

1890mm (6.2 Ft) X 610mm (2ft) X 610mm (2ft) / 686mm (2.25ft) / 762mm (2.5ft).

This would give a rated tank volume of 700L / 791L / 878L respectively.

The glass would be 10mm thick for the 2ft height but the other 2 would have to be made in 12mm thick.

Now when I say the tank will be "In-wall", it won't truly be 100% in the wall. I have selected my office wall which is the adjoining wall to my 2 car garage. The plaster will be cut out, and the existing roof and wall studs supported and a frame made for the tank to set in. The tank will set 90mm into the wall but the remainder will be sitting on a constructed timber stand on the other side which will be fixed to the wall and bolted to the concrete slab of the house. The side and rear glass will be painted black or blue and so it will create the illusion it is entirely in the wall. Tank will be finished off with a nice frame most likely constructed with the same skirting that is already used in the room.

Filtration

Tank will have a weir built into the side and drilled with durso standpipe and emergency.

Sump will be 4ft X 18inch X 18inch for 2ft height and 4ft X 18inch X 20 inch for the other heights.

I plan to have a wet/dry media tower sitting in the first section above the sump if that makes sense. Water will trickle down into a drip tray through 3 different grades of "Poret" filter foam, through bio balls and SeaChem Matrix and Purigen.

Return Pump - See "Questions"

Heaters
2 X Eheim Jager 300W

Chiller
I know a chiller is not typical on a Freshwater setup however, due to the tank sitting in the garage and Australia suffering very hot summers, I will be required to install one. I only expect this to be running 3-4 months in a year.

Lighting - I have not thought this far ahead yet.

QUESTIONS

1. What is the recommended flow rate for a sumped African Cichlid setup? With canisters it is 6X-10X tank turnover but from what I hear, sumps do not require this much turnover and it is more beneficial to have the water in contact with the media for longer. I was unable to find a definitive answer to this question.

2. What would be a suitable size/rate sump return pump for this application. I estimate the distance between the water line of the sump to the waterline of the tank to be between 1.6m - 2m depending on the positioning and height of the tank which is undecided at this point.

3. I would like to go to 2.5ft height but have a few concerns. The first being the ability to reach the bottom for maintenance or accessibility in placing rocks etc. The second being light penetration to the bottom of the tank. I would love to go LED but they are still quite expensive for the decent units that are capable of lighting a tank this size so if I am limited to T5's, will they be powerful enough for a tank that deep. What are people's experience this depth?

4. What size chiller will work for this setup?

That's all I have for now. Pictures to follow once work begins in the next week or so.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts and advice and thank you in advance.

Cheers, Joe. :D

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Hi Joe

Sounds like a great plan you've got going there, looking forward to the updates.

Regarding the sump pump, I use the Aqua Nova NPM-8000 for my 10x2x2 setup and has found it great, it is 8000lph producing 95watts (max lift 4.5m).

The key is you want to get an energy efficient sump pump, ones with "eco" in the name, it will save you heaps on the cost of electricity. That is why its best getting a new model pump, not one that has been around for a while - there seem to be a lot of advances over the last couple of years in energy efficiency. Since this thing will be running all the time for years, the cost you will save from getting an eco friendly pump will pay for itself in no time due to the insane electricity costs.

For yours, you could use the one with a bit less flow. IMO, something between 6000-6500 lph using 65 watts with 3m max lift would be good.

Something like the aqua nova nmp-6000. There are other eco pond pumps with similar specs available after searching on the web, probably around the $150 range for something like the 6000.

Regards, Rob

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G'day Rob,

Thanks for the reply mate. I'll be sure to keep those things in mind!

So how many LPH are you cycling through your sump? What is the reccomended rate for a cichlid setup?

Cheers, Joe.

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I run an 8500L per hour pump in the sump, so the tank is being turned over 7-8 times per hour.

My sump has heaps of seachem matrix in it with filter wool and biomat above the matrix. In the main tank, I have a powerhead at each end that suspends the detritus in the water column and a T section hooked over the middle of the main tank for good flow.

There is debate about the perfect flow rate, slower equals more time for filter media to come into contact with water. Faster = better mechanical filtration. I reckon 7-8 times per hour is OK, if you added a 6000 lph pump it would be turning over about the same as my rate, but you may want to add a couple of powerheads in there, such as those cheap 15 buck ones from ebay to suspend the detritus and make sure it gets into the sump.

Regards, Rob

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Took the plaster down last night to inspect what I'm in for.

Turns out the wall is a load bearing wall which will require a little more work but no big deal.

Due to wanting to have the tank completely centered on the other side of the wall, I've had to reduce the length to bang on 6ft because as you can see it will be quite close to the internal access door. The security door will be removed (since it's a pointless door anyway...not sure why the previous owner had it there) and there will be 660mm between the side wall and where the tank starts.

photo+1.JPG

photo+2.JPG

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you know when your obsession has evolved when you start tearing plaster off your walls :lol5: looks like a great project mate! are you going to put in a laminated beam to support the load?

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Haha! I know right! I'm trying to convince my family that there is method to my madness but it's not working! Ah well I'm doing it anyway.

Yes mate, spot on! A beam will be going in to support the roof.

I was toying with sizes before and I drew it up in chalk on the wall and have been double measuring everything.

I Have a bit of a dilemma I'm trying to solve. As you can see from the pictures, the internal access door is pretty close. With a 6ft tank it is actually only going to give me 650mm from the wall. Whilst I'm not so fussed about the door itself, I'm worried it may be too close and squishy...after all it is still going to be used as a garage and cars will be stored in there.

To be able to use the door , it requires 820mm to clear which is only an extra 170mm but to keep the tank central, I have to go down to a length of 1490mm (4.88ft). So I lose over a foot of tank space and at least 57 liters for 170mm depending on what height I go with.

I really had my heart set on an 8ft and came to terms with just over 6ft...now 6ft and its getting smaller and smaller :(

I drew up the different lengths and heights on the wall and calculated the volume of each. I don't want to go wider than 610mm due to cars and I still haven't decided on the height.

If I had to go to 5ft, I would definitely want to go a little more depth to get some more volume but then that also has it's own problem..

Here is the numbers

6ft

1830mm X 610mm X 610mm = 681L - Happy

1830mm X 610mm X 686mm = 766L - Happier!

1830mm X 610mm X 762mm = 851L - Thinking that this may only JUST look ok but the more I look at, the more I begin to think it looks too square

5ft

1490 X 610mm X 610mm = 554L - I think this is too small

1490 X 610mm X 686mm = 623L - I think this is the max height I can go with this length

1490 X 610mm X 762mm = 693L - I think this looks too square with this length

Don't know what to do but need to come to a decision because I can't start cutting materials until I do! It's driving me nuts! Was really hoping to get a bigger tank than my old one but I also want it to be done right!

photo.JPG

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Make it 2 tier so you have 2tanks for the footprint of one. The top one can be the display viewed from inside and the bottom can be a breeder only viewable from the garage. Put your sump on the floor beside the bottom tank. I think the only way to get a bigger tank is to move the door as Link said but your right it would be a bit of a job as you would have to replace plaster, paint and move that power point. Depends how bad you want that big tank...

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Moving the door would be pointless because then it would just be obstructed by the car that's parked in there. Don't really wanna go 2 tier although it would be cool.

I will be bigger than my old tank I guess being that it will be much wider and deeper but I really wanted a 6ft.

Only other option I guess is to off centre it but this may look weird.

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Why dont you go with a bigger tank behind the wall but have your hole or viewing window only frame some of the tank. no one will really know except you and the fish....

will you only have access to the tank from the garage?

Yes mate, only access from the garage side. Your suggestion is not really possible. The tank will sit flush with the plaster on the viewing side and the tank must be framed and supported the whole length. It wouldn't work.

Yeah it will still be kick a$$ because it's in the wall. I just don't want to be limited so much with stock.

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After a few days thinking it over and a lengthy discussion with the better half as well as consultation with my carpenter...I've decided to go with the smaller setup and keep the door functional.

650mm from the door opening will just be too tight. Building regulations say you must have 800mm. This way the work can be guaranteed and legal which means in the event of having to claim for damage through insurance, it will be covered and they can't weasel out of the claim on a technicality.

Tank is now 1490mm (L) X 610mm (W) X 686mm (H). 623L is still pretty decent.

Tank is going to be made in all 12mm thick glass.

Sump is being made 4ft x 18in x 18in. Glass will be 8mm thick. A media tower is being made that is 18in X 18in x 500mm high. This will sit on a beacon about 100-150mm from the bottom of the sump.

Tank and sump ordered and construction begins tomorrow!

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Just realized that due to the sump on the bottom, the stand must be constructed wider to accomodate which means I'm able to get a slightly wider tank on top.

Tank size is now 1490mm X 700mm x 686mm = 715L. :)

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I've been talking about it for ages. Excited its finally happening.

Just found out the tank builder has already made the tank so it is 610mm wide. Ahhh well. I'll have 110mm wide shelf behind the tank which isn't a big deal.

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I'm still undecided.

Was originally planning on keeping either a Frontosa / Altolamprologus tank or all male Hap and Peacock Tank. But not sure now since the tank is much smaller than first thought.

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I don't believe they're as bad as people say.

As long as your water is top quality and don't over feed then they're fine.

It helps to have a decent size colony to spread the aggression around so individuals aren't being singled out as much.

And big colonies look awesome anyway :D !!

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