cirulis Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi, I am interested in finding out whats the deal with the different types of electric blue there are out there. What got me interested is that my electric blue has a yellow anal fin rather than the more common orange, he also has a white section on top of his forhead and a lighter face(not as light as in pic, flash). Most of the electric blues i have seen however do not show this line and have an orange anal fin. I know there is such thing as a "white blaze" electric blue but i am not sure if mine is. Here is a picture of him Does anyone have any idea about the different anal fins and forhead strip?? and also whether mine is a white blaze, hybrid(doubted as bought from reliable source) or just a normal old electric blue cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi guys, I'm not hijacking this post ....but along the same lines.....what is the difference between S. fryeri and S. ahli? Wasn't S. ahli (then known as H. ahli) in the country about 20 years ago ? Are they the same fish ? If not, could hybridisation be the cause of the variation that we see today amongst "electric blues" ? Maybe this will help answer the questions posed in this post anyway..... merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViS Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Here is some info I once found (I did not write this but found it on an american site): The Sciaenochromis fryeri (and it's almost identical relative, ahli) is a "Malawi cichlid" and like most fishes in lake Malawi this one is endemic to the lake. This fish is found in all of the lake, but it isn't very common anywhere. The specimens found in the northern parts tend to have more yellow coloration, both on their fins and on the body. And the southern morphs seem to develop their typical white blaze at an earlier stage of life than the more northern ones. Apparently, there is another fish, almost identical to the fryeri, which is mistakenly sold as an fryeri / ahli, and what I recently found out I may have. It is the Sciaenochromis psammophilis. The difference is the psammophilis has yellow spots on the anal and dorsal fins, along with dark vertical bars, where the fryeri and ahli do not. Here is a burst on it: Sciaenochromis psammophilus is as suggested by its common name found near Kande Island. Kande island is on the western side of the lake about half way down. Sciaenochromis psammophilus is seen all year round near the island and the ajoining sandy shore. The species name "psammophilus" refers to it being normally found over sandy substrates (Greek: psammos=sand; philos=loving). It grows to about 115 mm Sl and is distinguishable from other Sciaenochromis in having 9- 11 dark vertical bars over the base colours of silver for the females and silvery blue for the males. The males also have much yellow in their dorsal and caudal fins which also distinguishes them from Sciaenochromis fryeri which has mostly blue caudal and dorsal fins. Pictures of this fish can be seen on page 34 of The Cichlid Yearbook Volume 3 (Konings 1993). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirulis Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 ok i think i have got it now..... my fish (as is picture above) is a Sciaenochromis fryeri. where as the fish with the orange anal fin is the Sciaenochromis Ahli. Now another question, what is being done to stop the interbreeding of these two different species, i think it is all to common to see them both refered to as "electric blue" when they are for sale. I wouldn't be suprised if most of the electric blues out there are hybrids...mine included there is clearly more than one type of "electric blue" in Australia so before people start breeding these species they should make sure they get the right ones cirulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 LOL , The true ahli has a bump on his top lip and a full length white blaze down his head ... ( Haplichromis ahli ) ... Well said Merjo .... Ya prolly won't see them round anymore Mind you the appart from the "lump" there's really not a great difference in body shape / size / colour / etc ... i can't remember the anal fin colouring atm so best i don't comment Last time i saw a true ahli available for sale was in QLD in an Aquarium called "Annerly Aquarium" , Which is renouned for participation in rare cichlids ... As it turns out i recall the price even it was $80 for a full grown male of 6 inches ... Ummm that was 15 years ago now but .. Andy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchar Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Thanks for that info. Andy. Always wondered what the difference in these species was. I knew about the S. psammophilus too, and these crosses are catching out the unwary. They are all sold under the blanket of "electric blue" . ...and cirulis.... there is clearly more than one type of "electric blue" in Australia so before people start breeding this species they should make sure they have the right ones Too late ...that was my point exactly. merjo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well im confused??? I was not aware that they are different fish (Ahli, Frieri) Mine are supposed to be Ahli e-blue, as i bought them in shop. But i was under the impression that they are still S.Fryeri. I thaught the "Ahli" was a trade name of some sort....does this mean my fish are bloody hybrids. Can someone clear this up please. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Umm Cirulis That looks like a jacksonii ta me ... The first pic is a much better fish .. ( e-blue /jacksonii / x IMO .) ... Andy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCormick Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi Andy,Merjo & Cirulis, This question just keeps coming back time and time again. Cirulis, the fish in your photo would be appear to be the same as the fish that I have at the moment, the only difference is possibly the colour of the anal fin my fish is more orange than yours appears. As for the ahli, some say we never had the true ahli in Australia and from the photos that I have seen that are supposed to be the true ahli it would appear that it is a fish with a more slender body and possibly not as colourfull as the fish we know as Electric Blue. There is a fish in the shops down here at the moment that is being sold as Electric Blue Iceberg, it is a white fish with a hint of blue over the body. I thought I would do a search on google for Sciaenochromis iceberg, it came up with numerous pages to view and plenty of photos to look at. If these pages are to be believed it would appear that there is a naturally occuring variant of fryeri that occurs at Maleri Island that has a far wider white band in the dorsal that extends down into the head. On one of the sites it claims that the standard electric blue has a narrower white edging to the dorsal and this is how you can tell them apart. I did not however find any mention of the white electric blues. If you have the time do a Google search and have read there are a few pages to wade through but I thought it was worth it. I know that my ramblings have not made your job any easier for identifying your fish but from what I have seen and read over the years I would be surprised if what we have at the moment is not a mixture of "Electric Blue" types that have been imported at different times and then sold under the common name of "Electric Blue" this of course would have led to unintensional crossbreeding. As you can also guess I have no proof whatsoever of this only my assumptions. Good luck with the fish you have as they are a stunning fish no matter what. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.s Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Neither of them are Sciaenochromis Ahli. Here is a pic of a true Ahli. Ahli The pics you posted in my opinion are both Sciaenochromis Fryeri or possibly crosses. The orange and yellow in the fins can be put down to either diet or location colour variations in the fish (or even line breeding). The top pic you posted looks like a cross between a blue type peacock and a fryeri. The second pic you posted looks like a real fryeri, but may be a cross between a white blaze otopharynx lithobates. The reason i say this is because more than 50% of the fryeri being sold in Australia at the moment are lithobate crosses. The way to tell whether it is a lithobates cross is by looking for thee dots on the fryeri's body that is chracteristic of otopharynx species. As for the white line, different locational variants of electric blues get a different amount of white on their head. There is also an "iceberg" variety which gets a full white blaze. Hope this helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCormick Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi Js, I'm not convinced totally on the lithobates 3 spot theory, I have seen photos of overseas female fryeri with the 3 spots visible. Having said that of course it doesn't mean that theirs aren't crossed also. It is all a bit messy. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirulis Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 so lets try and clear this up...... -is there such thing as ahli in australia or are they all fryeri and fryeri crosses? -Are the varying colours on the anal fins and also the body shape just geographical variations in the fryeri or are they hybrids. If so which bodyshape/bodycolour is the true fryeri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well to those resident experts what is mine? These are all pics of the same fish, note that this is only a 7-8cm fish (very early bloomer) and his blaze is gettnig better everyday, hes parents had a full blaze but not neccesarily the white blaze variety. His anal fin is quite orangey red (lol don't get me started) http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=409 http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=408 http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey cirulus, THats my E.Blue! hahaha did i send you that pic? Please note that its my picture since i dont want people thinking its yours.. cheers Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirulis Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 Which one the bottom one? If so i just had it, i got it off someone down here in melbourne. Sorry, i hope u don't mind, but it was the easiest i could find Btw...nice fish edit* i took it off, sorry bout that, is it ok if i put it up again with your name on it?? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serial-Cichlid Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 LOL, it is your fish Richard! ......... copyright.....? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 electric blues have always gone under the name of ahli in SA as far as i know there hasnt been any thing else here .. Although i wouldnt be surprised if there was jacksoni ?? in some of them here, wholesalers only seem to list them as ahli's as well.. I have only seen fryeri advertised by breeders in NSW Melb and Qld yet there wholesalers list them as ahli or just electric blues.. Could be opening a good can of worms here but it would be nice to know exactly what we do have going around OZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 are they allowable imports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungy Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Richard you really are a tool *slap* ... Andy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The cichlid Man Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Interesting this topic check my blues and tell me what they are. http://au.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ben_ci...n2002/my_photos These blues were german imports from a very reliable source about 3 years now. Please excuse the flash as it has drained out the thick white blaze on the male. Thing that one must remember is that alot of blues in australia have been crossed with peacocks and lately seen lithobates and alot of non standard markings have been visible on the fish. Regards, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McCormick Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hi Ben, Your Electric Blue looks like the ones on the overseas sites that are being called Sciaenochromis fryeri iceberg. As I said above the whole EB situation is very messy, I don't believe anyone can say with any certainty that they have the true "Electric Blue" John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gutty Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well to those resident experts what is mine? These are all pics of the same fish, note that this is only a 7-8cm fish (very early bloomer) and his blaze is gettnig better everyday, hes parents had a full blaze but not neccesarily the white blaze variety. His anal fin is quite orangey red (lol don't get me started) http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=409 http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=408 http://groups.msn.com/BettaLoversAustralia...oto&PhotoID=410 Look just like mine, that came from a reputable breeder on this board. And while everyone is showing off their fish..... My E.blue What makes my pics all grainy ? not enough light ?? Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiona Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 That's the usual cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E4G13M4N Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Ive started reading the Back to Nature 2nd edition.. It has Scianochromis fryeri.. Trade Names Haplochromis ahli Haplochromis Electric Blue Haplochromis jacksoni All listed as the same fish unless im reading something different to how he has put it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Lol, way to confuse things more Mark....lol Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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